Who owned/operated Sharks (Baldwin RF-16)?

Discussion related to Baldwin Locomotive Works, Lima Locomotive Works, Lima-Hamilton Corporation, and Baldwin-Lima-Hamilton.

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Well, he's almost finished a PA...

Postby Komachi » Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:19 pm

Or at least a "go-getter" like Doyle McCormack who has the tallent and connections, if not the money...
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Postby Engineer James » Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:13 am

Erik, agreed... but Larkin also we cannot forget probably won't sell them....
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Postby scottychaos » Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:53 am

Engineer James wrote:Erik, agreed... but Larkin also we cannot forget probably won't sell them....


well..time continues to march on.
eventually the decision of what to do with the sharks will no longer be his to make!

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Postby Engineer James » Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:22 am

This is true... anybody know how old he is? Also I hear he has some other badlwin Treasures we have no clue about....

Also the Soo Heavyweight... Last one from what I understand.....
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Postby Tadman » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:02 pm

I thought they were in the old P&H plant in escanaba.
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Postby scottychaos » Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:21 pm

This thread:

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14002

contains just about everything there is to know about the Shark's recent history.

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Postby GOLDEN-ARM » Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:44 pm

And this is, alas, another redundant topic in the first place............. :P

Sorry, Mimbonbo, but a diesel is a diesel. (not counting the OP, FM's) No big "mysteries", or legions of secretly trained, and highly skilled mechanics needed. SMC seems to do just fine, with theirs, while not spending, as one junior cadet speculated "millions" to rebuild a prime mover. Parts are out there, and readily available, for those looking for them. Railfans screwed up those locos being available, nothing more, and nothing less. I personally have bid, on 3 Baldwin Diesel engines,(prime movers) on eBay, in the last 3 years. Plents of stuff out there, and no "mysterious" voodoo involved. Regards :wink:
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Postby Engineer James » Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:36 pm

Really? I never knew. I thought it would cost a small fortune. Also, how many people know how to rebuild one of those prime's any more? Or even would it be worth it?
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Oh, boy, did you ask for it...

Postby Komachi » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:04 am

"Really? I never knew. I thought it would cost a small fortune."

Relatively speaking. If you have a large bank account, a few hundred thousand is "pocket change" (although, yes, to most of us and most non-profit organizations, the cost of a project like restoring the two (let alone ONE of the) RF-16s would be a "small fortune"). The cost of restoration is dependant on how much work has to be put into the item being restored. The more parts that have to be replaced will mean a larger price tag on the work performed. Any specialized parts that need to be fabricated will add to that cost as well. Labor? Uhuh... more money. Donations help shave a little off that tag, as does volunteer work.

So, the price tag on the restoration of the units is dependent on the condition of the locomotives to begin with, the cost of any OEM parts that are out there, the cost of new, fabricated parts and the cost of having someone make, refurbish and reinstall these parts. I've never worked on a project like that, so I can't tell you what the "rough estimates" would be, I'll leave that to the guys who have.


"Also, how many people know how to rebuild one of those prime's any more?"

James, may I refer you to the above comments by GOLDEN-ARM regarding that conundrum, or didn't you get those memoes? May I also, again, point out the SMS and its extensive fleet of Baldwin locomotives? If anyone out there knows Baldwins inside-out, backwards-forwards... you get the point, THEY DO!!! (Not sure how many times either myself or others have pointed this out in the various "shark" threads on the boards here...)


"Or even would it be worth it?"

Speaking as a historian (BA-History), you're "opening a rather nasty bag of worms" (as one of my Poli. Sci. professors once put it). Never ask anyone who is motivated to restore something if it is "worth it."

How many hundreds of thousands (almost a million?) has Doyle sunk into his PA? When it's done, will it be worth it? How many "man-hours" and dollars did the Confederate Air Force put into their B-29 (and they're working on a second one now), which is now the only flyable B-29 in existance? Why did my local historical society (of which I am the VP) just spend 20+ thousand to restore a derilict grain elevator that most people would have rather seen demolished (well, to preserve the historical link to our town, our agricultural heritage and the Milwaukee Road)? Why do people restore "junkyard dogs" into "classic cars," when buying a new car is cheaper?

IS IT REALLY WORTH IT?


I don't know. To some people it is. To others, it's "insanity." Why save (pick random item here), it's not worth it?!?! To each their own. You can argue the whole preservation angle any way you want to, but (and to tie my little tirade back to the topic at hand), I'm sure the majority here on the boards would say that restoring the last two sharks in existence would be well worth the expense.

OK, rant done, I'm getting off the soapbox...
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Postby Engineer James » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:10 am

Wow, nice rant. LOL yeah they do have a small collection...
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Postby GOLDEN-ARM » Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:37 am

Quote Komachi "OK, rant done, I'm getting off the soapbox..."

I thought ya looked taller there, Erik. So THAT'S how ya do it........ :P I mentioned SMS, and the Baldwin diesel engines, that are available on ebay, with some frequency. The money is a lot, but I'm not so sure, it approaches the "million" dollar mark. The locos are stored indoors, with no known physical damage, and a scored/broken crank, can easily be replaced, from a donor motor, along with heads, liners, and any other components. I stopped bidding on the last Baldwin V0-1000 (diesel engine) at $2000.00, and it sold for $400.00 more, plus the cost of moving it. It had less than 200 hours run time, with two generators, spare heads, lines, pistons and a mountain of operating and maintainance manuals. The locos are unusual, and they are interesting, but nothing on them is so special, rare or unfamiliar, that it can't be replaced, replicated or rebuilt. Parts is parts, as the saying goes, and only the sheetmetal, is unique to those locos. Even that, is easily fabricated, by a competent metal fabricator. Just ask Doyle! Regards :-D
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Postby Engineer James » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:15 pm

another interesting picture of them:

http://www.railroadfan.com/gallery/disp ... 12&pos=303

Must have been loaned to LV for a time.
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Postby scottychaos » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:59 pm

Engineer James wrote:another interesting picture of them:

http://www.railroadfan.com/gallery/disp ... 12&pos=303

Must have been loaned to LV for a time.


they were not loaned to the LV, but they spent a lot of time running between Binghamton and Sayre on the joint LV/D&H "Sayre Turn"..
so there are lots of pics of the sharks in Sayre.

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Postby Engineer James » Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:07 am

Ahh, that would explain it.
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The last two Sharks

Postby dsrc512 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:01 am

Matthew wrote "Because of the tab Michigan Northern ran up <snip>". MIGN never owned the two Sharks, the units were leased from Castolite Co, owned by John Kunzie, and still in business with a web site. My memory is that he, not the E&LS (John Larkin, spelled with an "i", see Pocket List of Railroad Officials) sent the damaged unit to Diesel Electric Services in St. Paul. They pulled the prime mover out of the carbody. I don't know what else they removed before DES went out of business. By happenstance I did see the damaged unit there with the prime mover on the ground. I have no direct knowledge of the details, but apparently John K. had the pieces gathered up and sent to storage on the E&LS. I am not privy as to why John Kunzie gave up ownership to John Larkin. It is my understanding the units are stored in the old P&H crane shop in Ontonagon, MI with other historic rail equipment.

Alex Huff, ex-MIGN, and sympathic toward Mr. Larkin's collecting habit, as I own a non-Baldwin, DDA40X UP 6925 and attached shortline RR. [/b]
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