The MM&A has to be the most remote Class I in the USA.

Discussion of present-day CM&Q operations, as well as discussion of predecessors Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railway (MMA) and Bangor & Aroostook Railroad (BAR).

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The MM&A has to be the most remote Class I in the USA.

Postby FormD » Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:26 am

And there the reason has to be-
1. The Falure of the State of Maine to develop a Intermodal Port at Bangor and Portland
2. The unwillingness to Develop the towns of the interior to catch up to the rest of the hustle and bustle of the North East
3. We have been doing this way for a hudred years why should we change now
4. Last but not least---Mills fighting against any other industry moving in to "There" towns so has to keep a Captive labor force that cant just pick and move
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Re: The MM&A has to be the most remote Class I in the USA.

Postby MEC407 » Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:38 pm

Interesting points, but MMA is not a Class I road. Class I railroads are railroads that have revenues of at least $250 million a year. Class II railroads are railroads that have revenues of at least $20.5 million a year. MMA most likely falls into that category, although with the troubles they're having, it wouldn't surprise me if they eventually fall into Class III (less than $20 million a year), especially if they lose more customers and abandon more track.
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Re: The MM&A has to be the most remote Class I in the USA.

Postby FormD » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:07 pm

"Scuse" me but regional railroads like the Reading and Lehigh were class ones in there time. When did the rule change?
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Re: The MM&A has to be the most remote Class I in the USA.

Postby Cowford » Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:23 pm

It has changed over time. There are additional accounting/reporting requirements that come with being a class 1, so smaller railroads have often petitioned to "up" the revenue cut-off. STB would consider MMA a Class III road (now less than $28 million, I believe... I can't imagine they are making more than that); AAR would consider MMA a "regional railroad" (defined as having mileage greater than 350 or revenue greater than $40 million).
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Re: The MM&A has to be the most remote Class I in the USA.

Postby oibu » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:01 pm

And there the reason has to be-
1. The Falure of the State of Maine to develop a Intermodal Port at Bangor and Portland
2. The unwillingness to Develop the towns of the interior to catch up to the rest of the hustle and bustle of the North East
3. We have been doing this way for a hudred years why should we change now
4. Last but not least---Mills fighting against any other industry moving in to "There" towns so has to keep a Captive labor force that cant just pick and move


HUH?

1.) Where would traffic come for ports such as Bangor or Portland? It mostly goes to Montreal or NY/Newark. Halifax and St. John aren't what they used to be either... that's one big reason why rail traffic in the area has dropped off so much. Jsut cause you built a harbor doesn't mean Maersk is going to be loading a stacktrain there every morning headed to California.

2.) What's this about "unwillingness" to develop? First, many folks would welcome a little more industry. Second, who the heck wants maine to be all gridlocked and congested and devloped like "the rest of the hust;e and bustle" o fthe northeast. Look, Maine is not even in the same ballpark as the rest of the northeast in terms of population or industry... you really have to compare Maine with places like New Brunswick, Quebec, Ontario, Nova Scotia, Minnesota, Colorado, etc.... Maine, economically and demographically, is much more in line with those places, and not at all simialr to MA, NJ, CT, etc... long may it be so. Mainers would like a few more jobs, but most want nothing to do with being "just like" Ma or NJ or CT... and in terms of population, geography, and types of industries... again, you have to compare apples and apples, not apples (say, Mass.) with watermelons.

3. Who are you speaking for?

4. again HUH? What other industries are the mills "fighting against"? The potato processors? Walmart? The bottle redemption guy? Surely you don't think Microsoft was going to locate Corporate HQ in dowtown Fort KEnt but got chased off by Irving and Fraser?

Now, to get back to your subject line.... yes, geopgraphically, MMA is, on the whole, among the most "remote" regional railroads out there. There are only a handful... ONR, maybe MRL, the former BC Rail and ACR, etc.- that are in the same leage or more so in terms of physical "remoteness".
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Re: The MM&A has to be the most remote Class I in the USA.

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:11 pm

Regarding Mr. Cowford's immediate posting, the present Railway Operating REvenue threshold for Class I standing is $348M.. Here is the "club":

Amtrak (yes, it is recognized as a "railroad"; other rail passenger agencies that hold "X" reporting marks are not)
BNSF
CSX
Grand Trunk (CN US ines)
Kansas City Southern
Long Island RR (same as Amtrak)
Norfolk Southern
Soo Line (CP US lines)
Union Pacific

I THINK Conrail Shared Assets is considered a Switching and Terminal Company

When I first started following industry affairs during the 50's, the threshold was $1M.
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Re: The MM&A has to be the most remote Class I in the USA.

Postby Tadman » Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:40 pm

Wow, looks like somebody got bounced...
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Re: The MM&A has to be the most remote Class I in the USA.

Postby cpf354 » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:50 am

Both MM&A and it's predecessor, Iron Road, I think tried to grow the bussiness, and the result was failure for Iron Road and now retrenchment for MM&A. There must be something fundamentally problematic about operating a freight railroad in Northern Maine that perhaps requires a bussiness model like Pan Am's to ensure its' survival.
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Re: The MM&A has to be the most remote Class I in the USA.

Postby Tadman » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:20 pm

Much as the railfans love to hate the big G, it appears to make money by making minimal investment and unloading certain lines when they fail to generate enough traffic to make a certain profit. On the other hand, industry has been moving out of New England since WWII ended. NHRR had a hard time making money, B&M was bankrupt for a while, and although I'm not sure about MEC or BAR, none of it looks like the model of prosperity. If the GRR model is the only way to make money on railroads in the area, then it's better than abandoning all the railroads.
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