MMA Passenger Capabilities

Discussion of present-day CM&Q operations, as well as discussion of predecessors Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railway (MMA) and Bangor & Aroostook Railroad (BAR).

Moderator: MEC407

MMA Passenger Capabilities

Postby gokeefe » Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:40 pm

Does the MMA as currently equipped have any interest or ability to run passenger extras or an occasional excursion train like the BAR used to for employee families?
gokeefe
User avatar
gokeefe
 
Posts: 10396
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

Re: MMA Passenger Capabilities

Postby CN9634 » Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:38 am

The MMA does have some old school passenger equipment. They have a few passenger cars at Derby and a few in Vermont. Heres a few example of cars, http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo ... 326934.jpg
http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo ... 214578.jpg

The MMA also has good ole 502, the F-3 that remains OOS to be used again one day. The 502 actually just had new traction motors installed from an old F40. Here is the 502:
http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?20080 ... 203539.jpg

Also the MMA has some "new" school passenger equipment. The Sierra Hotel is a dome car they purchased a few years back. I think its in Vermont but I have no idea about its where abouts.

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?20060 ... 611968.jpg
http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?20060 ... 316500.jpg

Hope this helps!
CN9634
 
Posts: 2218
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:50 pm

Re: MMA Passenger Capabilities

Postby gokeefe » Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:26 pm

Looks to me as if they could have an occasional passenger excursion if they wished. Do they have any interest in doing so? Has this equipment ever been used for excursion service? Is it perhaps more for a "Business Train"?
gokeefe
User avatar
gokeefe
 
Posts: 10396
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

Re: MMA Passenger Capabilities

Postby gokeefe » Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:32 pm

Interesting photo on rail pictures.net showing repairs being made to the MMA/BAR F3(?)

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=249466&nseq=20

Hard to imagine they really need it for freight service. Kind of makes you wonder if they're getting it ready for some kind of passenger service.
gokeefe
User avatar
gokeefe
 
Posts: 10396
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

Re: MMA Passenger Capabilities

Postby Otto Vondrak » Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:21 am

gokeefe wrote:Does the MMA as currently equipped have any interest or ability to run passenger extras or an occasional excursion train like the BAR used to for employee families?


No.

gokeefe wrote:Looks to me as if they could have an occasional passenger excursion if they wished. Do they have any interest in doing so? Has this equipment ever been used for excursion service? Is it perhaps more for a "Business Train"?


No.

gokeefe wrote:Interesting photo on rail pictures.net showing repairs being made to the MMA/BAR F3(?)

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=249466&nseq=20

Hard to imagine they really need it for freight service. Kind of makes you wonder if they're getting it ready for some kind of passenger service.


Burned up a traction motor in 1991. Don't know if it was ever repaired. Not sure if the unit is privately owned now?

What's the big deal about passenger trains all of a sudden? They might run the occasional charter for a group willing to pay, but I do not think they are interested in any kind of regular passenger train. They are working as hard as they can to keep their freight customers.

-otto-
----------------------------------------------
Moderator: New York State Railfan :: New York Central :: Toy Trains
NYW&B Fan Site :: A Magazine I Read Often :: A Museum I Volunteer At
User avatar
Otto Vondrak
 
Posts: 20225
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: New York

Re: MMA Passenger Capabilities

Postby gokeefe » Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:19 pm

Does anyone know what the disposition of this unit is regarding ownership and why it is being repaired?
gokeefe
User avatar
gokeefe
 
Posts: 10396
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

Re: MMA Passenger Capabilities

Postby MEC407 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:35 pm

MMA owns it. I can't imagine that they'd go to the trouble and expense of putting in new TMs unless they planned to do something with it. Otto, surely you agree...?
MEC407
Moderator:
Pan Am Railways — Boston & Maine/Maine Central — Delaware & Hudson
Central Maine & Quebec/Montreal, Maine & Atlantic/Bangor & Aroostook
Providence & Worcester — New England — GE Locomotives
User avatar
MEC407
 
Posts: 10778
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:15 pm

Re: MMA Passenger Capabilities

Postby shadyjay » Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:01 pm

CN9634 wrote:The MMA does have some old school passenger equipment. They have a few passenger cars at Derby and a few in Vermont. Heres a few example of cars, http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo ... 326934.jpg


Saw that car today at ST J. The fact that its there kinda makes me belive its owned by Vermont Rail System but I'm only basing that on the fact that its still sitting in the St J yard, which is operated by VTRS subsidiary Washington County Railroad. Saw someone walking around the yard coming over from the yard office, but I didn't get a chance to ask him about the car.
User avatar
shadyjay
 
Posts: 2003
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:08 pm
Location: Warren, VT

Re: MMA Passenger Capabilities

Postby gokeefe » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:53 pm

Otto,
I saw an interesting idea proposed on the VIA forum in response to a post about the Atlantic Limited which VIA used to run on the CP/CDAC tracks through Greenville. The idea was that somehow rail passenger service from Southern Maine could link up with the Atlantic Limited in Bangor. Okay that's not all that radical what was interesting was this would in effect possibly allow through ticketing of passengers from Boston or points south of Bangor to Halifax. I see a fair amount of Nova Scotia license plates in this part of Maine, and certainly even more since the changes in the currency balance. Anyways this idea would in effect be a resumption of the Gull which B&M used to operate out of North Station.

If VIA weren't interested in operating the service maybe MMA would be. The posts are designed to learn more about what the capability of MMA is to operate this service. Obviously you and I can't necessarily make any changes, but perhaps if there were some financial incentives, such as an operating contract from the State of Maine to operate passenger service in Northern Maine then there might be some interest on the part of MMA to do so especially with the reduction in car load volume from the northern paper mills and the timber industry.

The repair work on the BAR passenger engine really surprised me for a railroad that has no interest in passenger service nor has any plans for such in the near future? If they really are financially strapped as I think we all believe they are why spend the money? So we have a few possible answers, 1. The engine has been sold (no one seems to know), 2. They are interested in using it for passenger service (of what scale or potential no one seems to know this either), 3. They are interested in using it for freight service (this would seem like a very strange choice), 4. they are preparing to sell the unit (possibly the case but no one knows about this either), 5. they are preparing it for cosmetic display or donation to a museum for static display (why replace a traction motor?). So the question remains, if they are fiscally stressed what's the justification for spending the money?
gokeefe
User avatar
gokeefe
 
Posts: 10396
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

Re: MMA Passenger Capabilities

Postby Cowford » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:44 pm

The Atlantic Ltd used to stop at Jackman, Greenville Jct, Brownville Jct, 'Keag, and Vanceboro. If the total annual passenger count from all those stations combined exceeded 5,000, I'd be surprised. (If anyone has the actual historic passenger counts, please post 'em!)

The first thing considered in passenger rail is (obviously) potential volume. Looking at the stats should scare away the most rabid rail passenger proponent. Aroostook County's population peaked in the late 50s at around 106,000. At that time, the ol' B&A was losing upwards of $1million/year (and that's 1950s dollars) with just two passenger trains each way/day. The company was already switching to bus service (and providing faster service) long before I95 was built (in 1955). Since then, population has declined 30% (and unfortunately continues to do so). Subsidizing passenger train ops over the MMA or in the County would be Maine's equivalent of Alaska's Bridge to Nowhere.
Cowford
 
Posts: 2746
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Florida

Re: MMA Passenger Capabilities

Postby shadyjay » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:28 pm

User avatar
shadyjay
 
Posts: 2003
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:08 pm
Location: Warren, VT

Re: MMA Passenger Capabilities

Postby gokeefe » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:49 pm

Sadly, I'm afraid Mr. Cowford in regards to feasability. But I too would like to know what the passenger counts were for the Atlantic Limited especially if anyone has any data from before it became a 'sealed' train, and did not stop to pickup passengers in Maine.

On a more positive note if anyone can find out what's going on with the BAR F3 that would be great!
gokeefe
User avatar
gokeefe
 
Posts: 10396
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

Re: MMA Passenger Capabilities

Postby NS VIA FAN » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:16 pm

gokeefe wrote:...... But I too would like to know what the passenger counts were for the Atlantic Limited especially if anyone has any data from before it became a 'sealed' train, and did not stop to pickup passengers in Maine.


The Atlantic Limited always stopped for passengers in Maine right up to the last run in December 1994. There were just different procedures over the years.

When the Atlantic was reinstated in June 1985, US Customs/INS insisted on checking everyone, even those just passing through between Canadian points. Passenger traffic really dropped off with people changing to the Ocean to follow an all-Canadian route even though it took longer and required a wait between trains in Moncton. There were even calls to reroute the Atlantic on the NTR via Edmundston.

Eventually a compromise was reached and the train was sealed across Maine with a tag placed on each door except in the car where the US Inspector rode checking only passengers getting off at US stops. Those getting on in the US were inspected by Canada Customs and Immigration at Magantic, Quebec or McAdam, New Brunswick.
User avatar
NS VIA FAN
 
Posts: 926
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:51 am

Re: MMA Passenger Capabilities

Postby gokeefe » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:53 pm

"Reinstated?" How long had it been out of service before 1985? Why was it brought back? Was this service that CP used to run before the existence of VIA?
gokeefe
User avatar
gokeefe
 
Posts: 10396
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

Re: MMA Passenger Capabilities

Postby atsf sp » Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:04 pm

gokeefe wrote:The repair work on the BAR passenger engine really surprised me for a railroad that has no interest in passenger service nor has any plans for such in the near future? If they really are financially strapped as I think we all believe they are why spend the money? So we have a few possible answers, 1. The engine has been sold (no one seems to know), 2. They are interested in using it for passenger service (of what scale or potential no one seems to know this either), 3. They are interested in using it for freight service (this would seem like a very strange choice), 4. they are preparing to sell the unit (possibly the case but no one knows about this either), 5. they are preparing it for cosmetic display or donation to a museum for static display (why replace a traction motor?). So the question remains, if they are fiscally stressed what's the justification for spending the money?

Maybe they just want an engine for business trains. Like the UP E units or steam, CP's Fs, NS's Fs.
"Why would you take a train to go see another train?"
Some people just don't understand.
My Photos
atsf sp
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:00 pm

Next

Return to Central Maine & Quebec Railway (formerly Montreal, Maine & Atlantic / Bangor & Aroostook)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests