Horizon Coach Refurbishment

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Re: Horizon Coach Refurbishment

Postby Backshophoss » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:10 am

The order book at Siemens is FULL for now,so both the Amfleet I's and II's will be around for a while longer,Amtrak will see how well the
Caltrans and Midwest car fleets are accepted by the public and in service before the "replacement" order is made.
Mean time.send the Horizon fleet south asap to get the "Gulf Coaster" up and running.
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Re: Horizon Coach Refurbishment

Postby gokeefe » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:06 am

electricron wrote:Really, these cars seem to work okay in Chicago on Amtrak’s most frequent intercity service in the Midwest.

So perhaps the answer is longer Hiawatha/River Runner consists and/or more frequent service?

I have to say that the thought of using these cars on the Cardinal seems to be very sensible. Trainline doors are completely unnecessary on that route.
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Re: Horizon Coach Refurbishment

Postby gokeefe » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:33 pm

electricron wrote:Really, these cars seem to work okay in Chicago on Amtrak’s most frequent intercity service in the Midwest.

So perhaps the answer is longer Hiawatha/River Runner consists and/or more frequent service?

I have to say that the thought of using these cars on the Cardinal seems to be very sensible. Trainline doors are completely unnecessary on that route.
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Re: Horizon Coach Refurbishment

Postby east point » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:26 pm

Agree Horizons need to go south. If they are rotated to south every day any winter problems probably could be quickly mitigated. NOL and MIA certainly can keep them fixed. Extra cars for a maybe sunset east would also fit in the metric. Yes a refurbishment interior is greatly needed. However the Present Amtrak focus on expenses and not additional revenue makes this idea hard to push unless congress enacts proper legislation.

Horizons on Crescent could work with spare kept in ATL and they could be used for cut off cars along with the additional sleepers on order for 4 - 6 cut off cars at ATL which would justify a possible switching crew and a couple extra switches , track, and HEP connections. ATL now has car mechanics in ATL so tere would not be need for more unless light maintenance during day is contemplated.
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Re: Horizon Coach Refurbishment

Postby Greg Moore » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:32 pm

Does the Palmetto go far enough south?

That's one solution that frees up some LD cars for other trains.
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Re: Horizon Coach Refurbishment

Postby electricron » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:49 am

But the Palmetto runs over NEC tracks from NY's Pennsylvania Station to DC's Union Station. It is also one of the few long distance trains that actually boards and alights passengers on the NEC. Wouldn't the Horizon cars manually operated vestibule doors be a problem for any train running on the NEC, including the Palmetto?
That's why I'm thinking - at best - Empire Service trains is the best place to repositioning these cars, mainly because they will only stop at one (admitingly the busiest) NEC station.
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Re: Horizon Coach Refurbishment

Postby Greg Moore » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:27 am

Hmm, you're right, I keep forgetting about the doors.
But for the same reason, they wouldn't work well for Empire Service either.
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Re: Horizon Coach Refurbishment

Postby electricron » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:35 pm

If they are not compatible with Empire Services, will they be useful anywhere else?
The few places where they are being used today are replacing them with new Siemens rail cars,.
It appears no one wants them!
Why refurbish something no one wants?
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Re: Horizon Coach Refurbishment

Postby gokeefe » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:02 pm

How many cars are currently in use on the Cardinal and the Crescent?
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Re: Horizon Coach Refurbishment

Postby electricron » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:22 am

gokeefe wrote:How many cars are currently in use on the Cardinal and the Crescent?

The Cardinal one to two train sets, the Crescent four train sets. How many cars in each train set varies throughout the year by season.
FYI, the number of train sets can be determined by looking at each train's schedules, by calculating how many trains are in service.
Let's take the daily Crescent as an example....
Day 1: Train 20 departs NO at 0700 CT
Day 1: Train 19 departs NY at 1414 ET
Day 2 : Train 20 arrives NY at 1346 ET
Day 2 : Train 19 arrives NO at 1932 CT
Train 20 arrives in NY less than 30 minutes before the next Train 19 departs. Technically, it could make the turnaround, but it would not be clean or freshly restocked with food, water, drinks, etc. Therefore another train set should and is used.
Train 19 arrives in NO over 12 hours after the next Train 20 departs on Day 2. Therefore another train set has to be used.
The Crescent requires 4 train sets....
The Cardinal's three days a week service varies the number of days between trains for me to take the time to calculate now.
Instead of running trains every 24 hours from each terminus, it could be 24, 48, or 64 hours between train departures, and the train doesn't take 48 hours to travel between NY and Chicago. It takes around 30 hours to make the trip. Even if it could be done with one train set, Amtrak should use another just to give the train time for lengthly maintenance.

So, that's 6 train sets needed. If each Crescent had two sleepers, one cafe, one diner, one baggage, and two coaches at a minimum, that's 7 cars per train set, or 28 cars for four train sets. If each Cardinal has one sleeper, one cafe, one baggage, and two coaches, that's 5 cars per train, or 10 cars for two train sets. That's a minimum of 38 cars needed for both trains, and most likely more will be needed, as I believe each train usually has more than two coaches per train set. I haven't made it my life's ambition to count the number of cars on each and every train.
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Re: Horizon Coach Refurbishment

Postby gokeefe » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:09 pm

So that sounds like 12 coaches and 6 cafe cars to cover those two trains at a minimum which would still leave Amtrak with plenty of spares in reserve along with a surge fleet.

Looks like a good option to me ... And it would allow greater capacity on the Silver Service.
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Re: Horizon Coach Refurbishment

Postby dgvrengineer » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:06 pm

Cardinal really needs two sleepers at most times. It can be very hard to get a room unless you book months ahead, especially during the peak travel season. While we are at it, there should be enough cars to make the Cardinal daily. It might only need one sleeper if it runs daily. One of the biggest problems with sleeper space is the crew takes up several of the rooms. A baggage dorm would really help the situation.
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