Amtrak Grand Central Terminal Operations

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Re: Amtrak Grand Central Terminal Operations

Postby east point » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:40 pm

Would like to see a capacity and usage study of NYP & NYG. How many trains does MNRR store during day at NYG and how many tracks are there for storage including the ones not open to gates ?. Then how many trains does MNRR quick turn for departures ?

Then at NYP how many LIRR trains are stored at the west end yards and how many are turned back to Long Island ? How many Amtrak trains at one time in NYP and are any turn back to SSY or toward NJ ? How many NJT lay over at NYP, How many to SSY, & how many turn back to New Jersey >? What is storage track capacity at NYP /?
It does get complicated. Only then can we know if NYG has extra capacity ?
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Re: Amtrak Grand Central Terminal Operations

Postby gokeefe » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:02 pm

Ridgefielder wrote:If, for instance, more than say 80% of the passengers on a given train have NYC as their origin or destination, moving that train to GCT wouldn't be that disruptive. Doesn't matter if that train is going to Boston, Springfield, Niagara Falls, or wherever.


Completely agreed. My take on it would be the trains terminating in Albany go to Grand Central and everything else to Penn.
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Re: Amtrak Grand Central Terminal Operations

Postby Bob Roberts » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:45 pm

Ridgefielder wrote:... If, for instance, more than say 80% of the passengers on a given train have NYC as their origin or destination, moving that train to GCT wouldn't be that disruptive....


As a foamer I would really enjoy a reason to go to GCT to get Amtrak. However I am also one of the (hypothetical) 20% mentioned above. I am not a big fan of New York (mostly due to hotel prices), but I gotta pass through on my way somewhere (nearly anywhere on Amtrak) else. I have made a significant number of Empire to Crescent connections over the years. While I would be fine making the transfer, my wife and daughter would certainly complain. In addition, anyone who was unfamiliar with the city would be much more likely to say "no thanks" to Amtrak upon hearing they gotta make a station transfer in the Big-Scary-Apple (I don't think of NY that way but lots of folks in flyover country still do).
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Re: Amtrak Grand Central Terminal Operations

Postby CHTT1 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:01 pm

I see no reason for Amtrak to have two stations in New York City. They moved out of GCT in order to consolidate services many years ago Those reason haven't changed.
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Re: Amtrak Grand Central Terminal Operations

Postby electricron » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:44 pm

CHTT1 wrote:I see no reason for Amtrak to have two stations in New York City. They moved out of GCT in order to consolidate services many years ago Those reason haven't changed.

I’ll agree, but would like to add these additional facts; (1) Amtrak owns Penn Station and (2) Metro North owns Grand Central in whatever ways.
Ownership of a property means you have the final, ultimate say on what happens there.
Last edited by electricron on Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Amtrak Grand Central Terminal Operations

Postby David Benton » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:46 pm

I don't know why they don't just go 3rd rail EMU for the Empire trains, with a m' u able diesel tacked on to start once clear.
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Re: Amtrak Grand Central Terminal Operations

Postby mtuandrew » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:18 pm

David Benton wrote:I don't know why they don't just go 3rd rail EMU for the Empire trains, with a m' u able diesel tacked on to start once clear.

What’s wrong with an electro-diesel?
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Re: Amtrak Grand Central Terminal Operations

Postby gokeefe » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:31 pm

CHTT1 wrote:I see no reason for Amtrak to have two stations in New York City. They moved out of GCT in order to consolidate services many years ago Those reason haven't changed.


They have. They had space, there was capacity and ridership was far lower. It's been 27 years since Amtrak moved out. In 1991 the Acela "program" was in its infancy and nine years away from revenue operations.

So much has changed since then but most important of all is the system utilization. Penn Station is bursting at the seams with passengers. The Albany trains can be readily operated to a different terminal while still sending the other "Empire" trains to Penn with very limited negative impact on passengers.
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Re: Amtrak Grand Central Terminal Operations

Postby bdawe » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:49 pm

There's the simple reason that Grand Central is a more central station than Penn and that can matter quite a bit to rail ridership. This is related to the reasons why the MTA is spending 11-digit sums to bring LIRR trains to GCT
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Re: Amtrak Grand Central Terminal Operations

Postby electricron » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:18 am

bdawe wrote:There's the simple reason that Grand Central is a more central station than Penn and that can matter quite a bit to rail ridership. This is related to the reasons why the MTA is spending 11-digit sums to bring LIRR trains to GCT

And I suppose once LIRR enters Grand Central with many trains on a regular basis there will still be plenty of room for Amtrak too? LOL!
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Re: Amtrak Grand Central Terminal Operations

Postby Backshophoss » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:22 am

It was a congress critter mandate that made Amtrak leave GCT,everything was moved over to NY Penn and Sunnyside Yard.
MTA/MN would be happy to see Amtrak return to NY Penn in Sept,they need the platform space back,ESA has made hash of the lower level loop
and yard space to allow Elevator/Escalator/Stair space to the deeper LIRR platforms.
Amtrak ripped out LIRR's running repair shop in the West Side Yard to build the tunnel Box for gateway,that added more deadhead moves for LIRR
to Hillside Yard,that should ease off a bit when Amtrak builds the replacement shop for LIRR.
Sandy was the odd event that has thrown everything out of balance,and forced issues like the massive replacement of "A" interlocking,
repairs to DV Bridge and the East River and North(Hudson)River tubes due to brackish water damage.
And Nobody foresaw the rise of passengers to NJT,LIRR,Amtrak,and MN passenger/commuter services.
20/20 hindsight suggests that if Wheelspur Yard still existed,NJT would have been better off and Sunnyside Yard would not be "maxed out",
Wheelspur was the 'midday" layover yard for PRR Commuter passenger car fleet back then.
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Re: Amtrak Grand Central Terminal Operations

Postby east point » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:15 am

Can you locate Wheelspur for us ?
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Re: Amtrak Grand Central Terminal Operations

Postby CarterB » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:03 am

Bring back the Slumbercoaches!!
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Re: Amtrak Grand Central Terminal Operations

Postby bdawe » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:43 am

electricron wrote:
bdawe wrote:There's the simple reason that Grand Central is a more central station than Penn and that can matter quite a bit to rail ridership. This is related to the reasons why the MTA is spending 11-digit sums to bring LIRR trains to GCT

And I suppose once LIRR enters Grand Central with many trains on a regular basis there will still be plenty of room for Amtrak too? LOL!


LIRR isn't going into the existing GCT. They're building a whole 'nuther GCT underneath GCT just for LIRR, so ya?
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Re: Amtrak Grand Central Terminal Operations

Postby ryanov » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:54 pm

Speaking as someone who changes trains in Penn Station to use Empire Service, it was fun to use GCT once, but that was enough for me.
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