So Mr Trump says...

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Re: So Mr Trump says...

Postby eolesen » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:35 pm

Tadman wrote:Look at it this way: Given seven long distance trains into NYC from the tunnels, and a train capacity of 400 each, that's 2800 passengers, or less than the capacity of two NJT trains.

On the other hand, wikipedia posits daily ridership of 113,000 for NJT/NEC and 165,000 for Midtown Direct.


^^^ This ^^^

At best, the tunnels are a Port Authority project.

PFC's are paying for most of the improvements at airports today, so why not impose the equivalent of a $1 PFC each way on current tickets that transit the tunnels... PATH would clear $600M a year on that.

How many commuters stop commuting over a $2 tax increase?
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Re: So Mr Trump says...

Postby STrRedWolf » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:37 pm

Oh, Trump will change his tune if... Amtrak picks the Trump Corp to do a Private Public Partnership to build the tunnels and have Amtrak and NJTransit rent the tracks.

Tracks get built... and then investigated before being taken over by Amtrak for non-compliance via court order.
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Re: So Mr Trump says...

Postby andegold » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:13 pm

eolesen wrote:
Tadman wrote:Look at it this way: Given seven long distance trains into NYC from the tunnels, and a train capacity of 400 each, that's 2800 passengers, or less than the capacity of two NJT trains.

On the other hand, wikipedia posits daily ridership of 113,000 for NJT/NEC and 165,000 for Midtown Direct.


^^^ This ^^^

At best, the tunnels are a Port Authority project.

PFC's are paying for most of the improvements at airports today, so why not impose the equivalent of a $1 PFC each way on current tickets that transit the tunnels... PATH would clear $600M a year on that.

How many commuters stop commuting over a $2 tax increase?


How many commuters only travel once a month? At a minimum you've just raised the cost of a monthly ticket by $40 (if you assume 20 commuting days a month).
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Re: So Mr Trump says...

Postby CentralValleyRail » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:37 pm

He didn't even say that, click bait and fake news. The administration didn't allocate funds for the tunnel in the budget, NOWHERE In the article does it say "You can build it yourself " said Trump. Nowhere.
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Re: So Mr Trump says...

Postby JoeG » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:34 pm

In the end the Feds will contribute to Gateway, but probably not as much as NY and NJ would like. However, I don't know how long this will take. Bear in mind that the Dems showed no enthusiasm for the project when they had control. I am hoping Federal money will become available in 2021 but I wouldn't bet the rent on it.
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Re: So Mr Trump says...

Postby BandA » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:51 am

CentralValleyRail wrote:He didn't even say that, click bait and fake news. The administration didn't allocate funds for the tunnel in the budget, NOWHERE In the article does it say "You can build it yourself " said Trump. Nowhere.


Trump didn't say it in the article, his Deputy Transportation Secretary Jeffrey Rosen said it for him:
there was "no discernible path forward" for a series of projects known as the Gateway Program, which includes the [$13.5B] Hudson tunnel, a $1.7 billion replacement for the Portal Bridge in the Meadowlands, and other improvements between Newark Penn Station and New York Penn Station.
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Re: So Mr Trump says...

Postby BandA » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:11 am

The existing Hudson tunnels have not been repaired. How much Sandy Storm money are they "entitled" to? You could argue since the tunnels cannot be repaired while in service, the entire cost of the two new tracks should be paid for by FEMA, but then the old tunnels should be rehabbed on NY/NJ's dime. We could start a gofundme, with Pres. Trump matching the first $130K.
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Re: So Mr Trump says...

Postby CharlieL » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:38 pm

If Trump were for it, you would see skidmarks and broken necks from Cuomo, Booker and Schumer (though he's so greasy I doubt the skidmark part) as they immediately and vehemently opposed it. Trump knows how to deal; the others expect to offer basically nothing and get their way. Because they have, for far too long.
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Re: So Mr Trump says...

Postby mtuandrew » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:53 pm

On the one hand, I don’t trust that Schumer and Cuomo (in particular) have pure motives. On the other, I trust Trump’s word as far as I can throw him - and I’m pretty motivated.

In the end, Amtrak controls the NEC and owns the tunnels, and Amtrak will need to arrange for their replacement. Being the sole holder of its preferred stock, that means the Federal government. If New Jersey, the PANYNJ, or Elon Musk wants to build a set of tubes too, fine, but Amtrak still has to pay either on the front end or on the user fee end.
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Re: So Mr Trump says...

Postby eolesen » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:21 pm

The Federal government shouldn't be a landlord... Amtrak owning assets that commuter service depends on is something that needs to end.

PANYNJ should own the stations and tunnels in/out of NYC, just like Metra should own Union Station in Chicago....
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Re: So Mr Trump says...

Postby DutchRailnut » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:23 pm

so you proclaim communism and hell with who owns things ?
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Re: So Mr Trump says...

Postby rr503 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:19 pm

I have my own set of issues with Gateway, but the people who believe that the feds only fund things used by a disproportionately interstate populus are...wrong. Do you realize the sums we spend on porkbarrel rural highway improvement projects? Or the amounts we spent on making what essentially are commuter roads for every city? Or the number of grants issued to local transit projects by the FTA yearly? Or the level of general earmarking and horsetrading that goes on on a federal level? To be sure, I don't think that's a bad thing, but to selectively ignore it is to make a bad argument.

More generally, if you really wanted to make a case that gateway isn't a project of national importance, you shouldn't be looking at absolute stats (literally every bit of transport infrastructure is dominated by commutation) but instead how Gateway's breakdown stacks up against the rest of the country.
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Re: So Mr Trump says...

Postby Tadman » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:07 am

eolesen wrote:The Federal government shouldn't be a landlord... Amtrak owning assets that commuter service depends on is something that needs to end.

PANYNJ should own the stations and tunnels in/out of NYC, just like Metra should own Union Station in Chicago....


eolesen wrote:The Federal government shouldn't be a landlord... Amtrak owning assets that commuter service depends on is something that needs to end.

PANYNJ should own the stations and tunnels in/out of NYC, just like Metra should own Union Station in Chicago....


I don't think it's communism when one gov't entity battles another for a piece of property.

This does raise a good question. If the commuter trains use far more of the track, why don't they own them? But then we have the New Haven line fiasco where the Acela cruises leisurely behind the 5:15 to Stamford because MN owns the tracks and Amtrak plays second fiddle. We all know how that goes, it's a never-ending topic here.

The alternative is the northwest Indiana solution where there are two parallel passenger railways belonging to the taxpayers. The NICTD and the third NS main that the feds paid for that serves as the western end of the Amtrak Michigan line. From Niles/South Bend to the Illinois Line, there are two parallel taxpayer railroads. Tell me how that adds up. It doesn't, but certain Amtrak and South Shore and NICTD execs didn't want to get into a New Haven situation.
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Re: So Mr Trump says...

Postby DutchRailnut » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:46 pm

In schedule the Acela never gets stuck behind the Stamford local , but when Amtrak shows up at gate already late, they get pot luck .
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Re: So Mr Trump says...

Postby ryanov » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:15 am

I'll say one thing for Trump: he's done an incredible job at making people with truly asinine ideas stand out in bright daylight. I honestly never thought I'd see the day where people on this forum or RPA (ex-NARP) sites would be arguing that funding a tunnel that would bifurcate the only high speed railway in the entire country would become a "these coastal elites" issue. I suppose it was never stated that this is a forum for railfans; I frequently have to remind myself. (if you do consider yourself a railfan and yet hold these sorts of opinions, please delete your account)

Yeah, a trade of a who knows how many billion dollar stupid wall, solving a non-existent problem (see recent illegal immigration stats) and creating all sorts of other real problems (environmental harm, taking people's land on the border, etc.) for a tunnel that is needed to keep the largest economy in the country running. Makes total sense; why not flush billions down the toilet so that we can extract a more reliable commute from the president (who's supposed to be in office serving the entire country, BTW).

Anyway, are you folks under the impression that because people who live here are the primary users of the tunnel that it doesn't matter to the rest of the country? Every dollar I have ever spent in either Boston or Washington, DC -- or Baltimore or Wilmington for that matter, and nearby areas -- has been courtesy of Amtrak. The NEC is not viable without that tunnel, flat out.
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