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STrRedWolf wrote:We're still not touching a main point I have:
What is the rate Amtrak is paying? That contracted rate. Is it what the fair market price is now? Is it lower? Is it higher?
If it's lower, then Mr. Frailey has a good point. If it's equal or higher, the article's premise fails.
The funny thing is... only one railroad actually publishes their rates: Norfolk Southern. Everyone else wants you to "talk to a rep".
I'm going to take the Pennsylvanian and assume the worst possible case: All 444 miles are on NS track. 8 cars, 1 locomotive (if I remember correctly). NS charges per trip, per car, and per engine, a stepped rate on each piece of equipment.
Cost per passenger car per trip: $6,737
Cost per locomotive per trip: $6,928
Total for a train set: $60,824 per trip.
Total per day (two trips): $121,648
Total monthly (31 days): $3,771,088 (nearly $4 million)
That's not including fuel, repair cost, switching, wayside usage for stations, etc. That's just to let the train set run on the track.
We're at the point where we need to see the bills. So what's Amtrak paying?
As a side note: While evoking the Google-fu I came across an Amtrak OIG report from 2013 where it states that Amtrak overpaid BNSF for various items related to stations and power usage with them, to the tune of $1.3 billion over ten years (if I read it correctly). At the very least, it looks like the industry as a whole could use a major audit.
bretton88 wrote:STrRedWolf wrote:We're still not touching a main point I have:
What is the rate Amtrak is paying? That contracted rate. Is it what the fair market price is now? Is it lower? Is it higher?
That number is roughly what PennDOT pays yearly to operate the Pennsylvanian, so I don't think Amtrak is paying anywhere close to market price for that slot.
mtuandrew wrote:The Class 1s may not dislike passenger trains, but they sure aren’t interested in passengers themselves. HUGE liability to have on their rails, more than hazmat or coil cars. Let’s add that to the Amtrak market rate, above and beyond the intermodal rate.
STrRedWolf wrote:
Cost per passenger car per trip: $6,737
Cost per locomotive per trip: $6,928
bretton88 wrote:Total monthly (31 days): $3,771,088 (nearly $4 million)
That number is roughly what PennDOT pays yearly to operate the Pennsylvanian, so I don't think Amtrak is paying anywhere close to market price for that slot.
another relevant quote (from here: https://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/default/f ... ed3%29.pdf):
"The Railroad Passenger Service Act of 1970 grants Amtrak priority access to freight railroads' rights-of-ways and requires that Amtrak compensate owning freight railroads only for the incremental cost (rather than a negotiated market cost) associated with accommodating intercity passenger services over their tracks. "
STrRedWolf wrote:bretton88 wrote:Total monthly (31 days): $3,771,088 (nearly $4 million)
That number is roughly what PennDOT pays yearly to operate the Pennsylvanian, so I don't think Amtrak is paying anywhere close to market price for that slot.
Let us refine it then... actual track milage is 249 miles on NS track, so that's the 300 mile rate. (I'm using form NSRQ-4900 for the rates)
Per car/trip: $5215
Locomotive/trip: $5194
Trip total: $46,914
Day total: $93,828
31-day total: $2,908,668
Year total: $34,247,220
So at least $35M/year. And you say PennDOT pays $4M/year? How much is Amtrak paying?another relevant quote (from here: https://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/default/f ... ed3%29.pdf):
"The Railroad Passenger Service Act of 1970 grants Amtrak priority access to freight railroads' rights-of-ways and requires that Amtrak compensate owning freight railroads only for the incremental cost (rather than a negotiated market cost) associated with accommodating intercity passenger services over their tracks. "
And there you go. Amtrak isn't paying market rates because it's required by law not to. This means any lawsuit against Amtrak would fail... and the issue has to be re-legislated.
Want to bet the lawyers at the railroad companies already went though this law and said to the owners "You're screwed, better just double-track."
BTW, the Pennsy's route is double-tracked all the way to Pittsburgh. Didn't Mr. Frailey mention that double-tracking where possible would solve the time loss issues?
mtuandrew wrote:It’s worth the government’s time to invest in railroad infrastructure anyway, regardless of whether it’s for passenger or freight. Takes a lot of pressure off the Interstate and US Highway system for less than an extra lane or new interchange costs. Passenger capacity is a small price to ask.
rohr turbo: does the per-car rate change as the priority/speed changes? That said, Amtrak also provides its own fuel, crew, and power, so that’s a nice discount.
rohr turbo wrote:RedWolf your figures are way off.
...
I'm happy to be corrected on the car-mile costs if someone can point to recent links.
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