Amtrak will operate all trains after Jan 1 PTC deadline

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Re: Amtrak will operate all trains after Jan 1 PTC deadline

Postby DutchRailnut » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:01 pm

seeking permission does not mean they will get it.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: Amtrak will operate all trains after Jan 1 PTC deadline

Postby mtuandrew » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:38 pm

Moderator Note: moved to Amtrak.
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Re: Amtrak will operate all trains after Jan 1 PTC deadline

Postby EuroStar » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:05 am

DutchRailnut wrote:seeking permission does not mean they will get it.

The only reason to not get permission from the FRA will be political football between the administration and some Democratic leaning states. If politics does not come into this, they will get it. It will be last moment and "temporary" and will get extended a few times, but on cost benefit basis they will get it and it will be renewed as long as we have no major accident on any of those non-PTC segments. Anything like the Cascades wreck will put an end to it, but as long as those are avoided the permission will be given.
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Re: Amtrak will operate all trains after Jan 1 PTC deadline

Postby Ken W2KB » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:31 pm

>>>"Although that plan is underway, Amtrak's goal is to continue to operate all its current routes after the first of the year, Naparstek said. "Exactly how we accomplish this will vary across our network, based on the specifics of each route," he said. "But ... we believe we will have strategies in place that will permit us to continue operations until operational PTC or PTC-equivalency is achieved for all our network."<<<

Continuing operation "strategies" might include the bus substitutions. This statement does not expressly state that the operation will be all rail.
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Re: Amtrak will operate all trains after Jan 1 PTC deadline

Postby mtuandrew » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:05 pm

Ken W2KB wrote:Continuing operation "strategies" might include the bus substitutions. This statement does not expressly state that the operation will be all rail.

Ding ding ding. It also doesn’t say whether such non-PTC segments will be at speed if operated by train, or if Amtrak will only operate at restricted speed only.
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Re: Amtrak will operate all trains after Jan 1 PTC deadline

Postby Backshophoss » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:16 am

Most of the P40's/42's have Qualcomm sat domes for GPS tracking,Believe Qualcomm has developed a remote kill switch option along with "real time tracking",
Speed/direction tracking,so a "form D"/Track warrant(GCOR rules) on "steroids" should be possible after updating the control box send/receiver "radio".
There would need to be connections to allow I-ETMS/ACSES to take "control" when entering that territory,from PTC Dark territory.
A retaliative "quick fix" $$$$ wise. :wink:
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Re: Amtrak will operate all trains after Jan 1 PTC deadline

Postby Ken W2KB » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:48 am

The House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, Subcommittee on Railroads, Pipelines and Hazardous Materials held its second hearing of the year on Sept. 13 on implementation of Positive Train Control (PTC).

>>> NTSB: “Chairman Sumwalt said NTSB urges swift implementation, but noted that only about 40% of the nation’s rail network will operate under PTC, which he says leaves a significantly decreased level of safety along non-PTC track-miles.”<<<

This testimony – “significantly decreased level of safety” - will be introduced by plaintiff’s counsel in the event of an accident on non-PTC territory, and effectively says to the jury, ‘empty Amtrak’s pockets’. This statement essentially firmly supports any decision by Amtrak to not operate on non-PTC track effective January 1st. :(

https://www.railwayage.com/regulatory/house-ptc-hearing-progress-and-problems-on-display/
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Re: Amtrak will operate all trains after Jan 1 PTC deadline

Postby mtuandrew » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:45 pm

We here know that the safety level won't actually decrease after the New Year, it just won't increase to the level desired by Amtrak. We also know that train operation is considerably safer than road travel, and that bustitution will put travelers at more risk than operation over non-PTC corridors. Others may not know that.

Is anyone here skilled at writing petitions? I think it's worth asking our representatives to introduce legislation that:
1) Requires the FRA to insure Amtrak (rather than NRPC self-insuring) in case of an incident or accident preventable by PTC when operating over non-PTC track after 12/31/18, until such time as the host railroad has fully installed and tested PTC or a comparable safety system on that line segment
-- a) and if the host railroad misses its installation deadline as agreed to with the FRA, responsibility for liability payments after that deadline will transfer to them
2) Requires Amtrak to continue operating its current route segments by train on the same trackage as of 10/1/18, or via alternate trackage that reaches 99% of the current passenger facilities, except in case of force majeure in which case Amtrak and the host railroad will negotiate an alternate route and timeline for return to the original track segment, and
3) Requires the FRA to develop a "super Form D/Track Warrant" (stored "warrant" of PTC instructions for dark or ABS tracks; automatic hand-off to active PTC; emergency stop via secure cellular/radio signal, ACSES transponder, or legacy Automatic Train Stop) in conjunction with Amtrak, AAR, and other interested parties; and to complete implementation for PTC-exempt tracks that host scheduled passenger traffic or hazardous materials shipments above FRA Class 2 speeds (25F/30P) on or before 1/1/2024.
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Re: Amtrak will operate all trains after Jan 1 PTC deadline

Postby John_Perkowski » Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:32 am

As has been said so many times, PTC will not prevent a rail failing or an idiot driver racing his vehicle to the grade crossing...and failing. It won’t prevent a washed out culvert or a major rockslide/landslide. It won’t prevent a river captain losing control of his barges and them colliding with a piering on the Mississippi River whilst a train is crossing.

It’s A Tool in the safety box. One. No more, no less.
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Re: Amtrak will operate all trains after Jan 1 PTC deadline

Postby jamesinclair » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:25 pm

According to the San Joaquin folks, the San Joaquin line is now fully PTC compliant as of this week.
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