Amtrak DMUs

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Re: Amtrak DMUs

Postby east point » Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:04 pm

running multi DMU / EDMU sets does require the necessity of providing walk thru capabilities. The MNRR EMUs certainly look to provide that.
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Re: Amtrak DMUs

Postby dowlingm » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:04 am

east point wrote:running multi DMU / EDMU sets does require the necessity of providing walk thru capabilities. The MNRR EMUs certainly look to provide that.

Necessity? Irish Rail regularly operate joined 3-car 22000 class intercity spec trainsets in multiple which cannot be walked through end to end because of the cab design.
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Re: Amtrak DMUs

Postby east point » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:41 pm

dowlingm wrote:
east point wrote:running multi DMU / EDMU sets does require the necessity of providing walk thru capabilities. The MNRR EMUs certainly look to provide that.

Necessity? Irish Rail regularly operate joined 3-car 22000 class intercity spec trainsets in multiple which cannot be walked through end to end because of the cab design.


As the present ticket taking operation is done that would require many more assistant conductors ?
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Re: Amtrak DMUs

Postby Ryand-Smith » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:58 pm

east point wrote:
dowlingm wrote:
east point wrote:running multi DMU / EDMU sets does require the necessity of providing walk thru capabilities. The MNRR EMUs certainly look to provide that.

Necessity? Irish Rail regularly operate joined 3-car 22000 class intercity spec trainsets in multiple which cannot be walked through end to end because of the cab design.


As the present ticket taking operation is done that would require many more assistant conductors ?

I can't imagine that many more, most regionals as it is have 2 conductors so you can still have a 1 for 3 (the talent bi mode had 4? cars so you can have one
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Re: Amtrak DMUs

Postby WesternNation » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:14 pm

Expect detailed DMU/AMIII procurement information in November when the final decisions are being made.
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Re: Amtrak DMUs

Postby frequentflyer » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:10 pm

WesternNation wrote:Expect detailed DMU/AMIII procurement information in November when the final decisions are being made.


I saw the minutes from the Sept. meeting and it mentions about car procurement but nothing about EMU/DMUs. Do you think a decision has been made in favor of?
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Re: Amtrak DMUs

Postby mtuandrew » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:49 pm

I’m curious what MU specs Amtrak would even release. Obviously they’d be high-floor for the NEC, but beyond that - are we talking about something that can tow trailer coaches, like NJT was playing with? Something that can even couple & MU with existing cars and locomotives? Something with traps, wheelchair lifts, platform extenders...?
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Re: Amtrak DMUs

Postby Bramdeisroberts » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:57 pm

The smart thing to do would be to build a "Metroliner II" of sorts using modern Siemens/Kawasaki/Alstom single-level bodyshells with Stadler FLIRT-style dual-mode DEMU running gear, and order them in either 3, 4, or 5-car permanent consists that can run individually on lines like the Keystone, the Vermonter, the Downeaster, or anywhere in Upstate NY or the Midwest, and MU up into 9, 8, or 10-coach consists for Northeast Regional/nu-Metroliner service on the NEC, and roll them out as the definitive Amfleet/Horizon replacement across the entire system. Aim for 110-120mph under diesel power, and 140mph under wires. Bonus points if they tilt.

From there, keep some ACS-64s and Amfleets in reserve while selling the rest of them to NJT/SEPTA/MARC or even the MBTA to pull bilevel commuter consists quickly on the NEC and connecting electrified commuter lines.
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Re: Amtrak DMUs

Postby Ryand-Smith » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:35 pm

Bramdeisroberts wrote:The smart thing to do would be to build a "Metroliner II" of sorts using modern Siemens/Kawasaki/Alstom single-level bodyshells with Stadler FLIRT-style dual-mode DEMU running gear, and order them in either 3, 4, or 5-car permanent consists that can run individually on lines like the Keystone, the Vermonter, the Downeaster, or anywhere in Upstate NY or the Midwest, and MU up into 9, 8, or 10-coach consists for Northeast Regional/nu-Metroliner service on the NEC, and roll them out as the definitive Amfleet/Horizon replacement across the entire system. Aim for 110-120mph under diesel power, and 140mph under wires. Bonus points if they tilt.

From there, keep some ACS-64s and Amfleets in reserve while selling the rest of them to NJT/SEPTA/MARC or even the MBTA to pull bilevel commuter consists quickly on the NEC and connecting electrified commuter lines.


I feel LD trains should always be locomotives, (IE if the train is longer than 24 hours) since you need sleepers and flexibility (like Auto Train can't ever be MU), but all corridor trains, all short trains should be longer DMU (Ie the 6 car permanent sets with the ability to link.) for maximum flexibility. I suspect Amfleet III will be a thing for say some odd routes like the Cardinal though)
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Re: Amtrak DMUs

Postby ConstanceR46 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:24 pm

I don't think the ACS-64s should be replaced. They're around 3-4 years old and have the horsepower needed for long trains.
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Re: Amtrak DMUs

Postby Bramdeisroberts » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:25 pm

Ryand-Smith wrote:I feel LD trains should always be locomotives, (IE if the train is longer than 24 hours) since you need sleepers and flexibility (like Auto Train can't ever be MU), but all corridor trains, all short trains should be longer DMU (Ie the 6 car permanent sets with the ability to link.) for maximum flexibility. I suspect Amfleet III will be a thing for say some odd routes like the Cardinal though)


Yeah, I was strictly talking about the NEC. For NEC-related single-level LD service, Amtrak should order an adaptation of the Brightline sets with chargers and those snazzy Siemens coaches to go with their viewliners, while keeping some ACS-64s to haul those trains under wires. Single-level LD service is such an outlier though that it shouldn't dictate trainset procurement for short and medium-distance service like the NEC and it's feeders or the Midwest routes.
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Re: Amtrak DMUs

Postby John_Perkowski » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:59 pm

Just a friendly reminder...

Work rules are negotiated between unions and railroads (including Amtrak). A classic teaching point of “Management of Labor 501” (MBA/MPA grad school stuff) is:

IF YOU WANT A CHANGE FROM THE UNION ON ISSUE X, YOU WILL HAVE TO GIVE TO THEM A CHANGE THEY WANT ON ISSUE Y.

One question the folks at Amtrak will consider, heavily, is “Will procuring and deploying MU car sets require a change in the work rules, and what will the unions want as quid pro quo?”
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Re: Amtrak DMUs

Postby Ryand-Smith » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:07 am

John_Perkowski wrote:Just a friendly reminder...

Work rules are negotiated between unions and railroads (including Amtrak). A classic teaching point of “Management of Labor 501” (MBA/MPA grad school stuff) is:

IF YOU WANT A CHANGE FROM THE UNION ON ISSUE X, YOU WILL HAVE TO GIVE TO THEM A CHANGE THEY WANT ON ISSUE Y.

One question the folks at Amtrak will consider, heavily, is “Will procuring and deploying MU car sets require a change in the work rules, and what will the unions want as quid pro quo?”


What would the union want?
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Re: Amtrak DMUs

Postby WesternNation » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:26 am

Bramdeisroberts wrote:The smart thing to do would be to build a "Metroliner II" of sorts using modern Siemens/Kawasaki/Alstom single-level bodyshells with Stadler FLIRT-style dual-mode DEMU running gear, and order them in either 3, 4, or 5-car permanent consists that can run individually on lines like the Keystone, the Vermonter, the Downeaster, or anywhere in Upstate NY or the Midwest, and MU up into 9, 8, or 10-coach consists for Northeast Regional/nu-Metroliner service on the NEC, and roll them out as the definitive Amfleet/Horizon replacement across the entire system. Aim for 110-120mph under diesel power, and 140mph under wires. Bonus points if they tilt.

From there, keep some ACS-64s and Amfleets in reserve while selling the rest of them to NJT/SEPTA/MARC or even the MBTA to pull bilevel commuter consists quickly on the NEC and connecting electrified commuter lines.


Midwest and California already have new cars and engines. It would be a complete waste here unless Amtrak expanded service out of Chicago.

Also, the DMU/AMIII stuff is all in one RFI. I figure they’ll likely be in one RFP as well.
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Re: Amtrak DMUs

Postby Railjunkie » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:22 am

Ryand-Smith wrote:
John_Perkowski wrote:Just a friendly reminder...

Work rules are negotiated between unions and railroads (including Amtrak). A classic teaching point of “Management of Labor 501” (MBA/MPA grad school stuff) is:

IF YOU WANT A CHANGE FROM THE UNION ON ISSUE X, YOU WILL HAVE TO GIVE TO THEM A CHANGE THEY WANT ON ISSUE Y.

One question the folks at Amtrak will consider, heavily, is “Will procuring and deploying MU car sets require a change in the work rules, and what will the unions want as quid pro quo?”


What would the union want?



I would like the hour back that I loose every time I go to New York Penn
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