Amtrak 91 - CSX Collision Cayce, SC - 2/4/18

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Re: Amtrak 91 - CSX Collision Cayce, SC - 2/4/18

Postby justalurker66 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:48 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:The FBI involvement probably has to do with crew member swearing that he lined switch for main,

The biggest benefit of involving the FBI is that lying to the FBI is a crime all to itself. It does not matter if one has done anything else wrong or if the person lying broke any other law. One can go to prison simply for lying to the FBI. That should encourage people to tell the truth.
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Re: Amtrak 91 - CSX Collision Cayce, SC - 2/4/18

Postby farecard » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:09 pm

They also can have the lock fingerprinted, with a chain of custody.
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Re: Amtrak 91 - CSX Collision Cayce, SC - 2/4/18

Postby Tadman » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:15 pm

I don't speak from a position of knowledge here, but I have heard of situations in the past where the FBI is brought in until foul play (such as terrorism or hate crimes) can be ruled out. I don't know that is happening here, but it makes sense to me.
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Re: Amtrak 91 - CSX Collision Cayce, SC - 2/4/18

Postby n2cbo » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:02 pm

justalurker66 wrote:
DutchRailnut wrote:The FBI involvement probably has to do with crew member swearing that he lined switch for main,

The biggest benefit of involving the FBI is that lying to the FBI is a crime all to itself. It does not matter if one has done anything else wrong or if the person lying broke any other law. One can go to prison simply for lying to the FBI. That should encourage people to tell the truth.

That's right, Just ask Martha Stewart...
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Re: Amtrak 91 - CSX Collision Cayce, SC - 2/4/18

Postby JTBernier » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:46 pm

Sorry to jump in late... but it seems there were two switches that needed to be locked and lined.

As the CSX freight came north out of the auto ramp, there's a switch from the siding to the main. Proceed a bit further north on the main and the second switch must be passed before backing onto the west side siding.

I've only heard that the CSX crew report A switch was locked and lined. Were they referring to the one from the east siding? Everything I've read seemed to suggest they were referencing the switch for the west siding.
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Re: Amtrak 91 - CSX Collision Cayce, SC - 2/4/18

Postby justalurker66 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:05 pm

JTBernier wrote:I've only heard that the CSX crew report A switch was locked and lined. Were they referring to the one from the east siding? Everything I've read seemed to suggest they were referencing the switch for the west siding.

Are you suggesting that they knew the main line switch into the siding where they backed their train was lined for the siding when they tied down their train and went home?
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Re: Amtrak 91 - CSX Collision Cayce, SC - 2/4/18

Postby DutchRailnut » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:10 pm

not the crew, but why did NTSB have interview with trainmaster ???? did he line one switch , but forgot other ?? why was he interviewed ?
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: Amtrak 91 - CSX Collision Cayce, SC - 2/4/18

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:23 pm

Mr. Railnut, I have not seen any report that a Trainmaster was "on the ground" at the scene when the incident occurred.

I guess I missed it in our discussion; general circulation media might have said "a supervisor".
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Re: Amtrak 91 - CSX Collision Cayce, SC - 2/4/18

Postby JTBernier » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:31 pm

justalurker66 wrote:Are you suggesting that they knew the main line switch into the siding where they backed their train was lined for the siding when they tied down their train and went home?


Not at all. Just wondering if there was some confusion in communications between crew and dispatch about which switch was locked and lined.

I noticed in the NTSB B roll video the the auto ramp siding switch was lined with the main.
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Re: Amtrak 91 - CSX Collision Cayce, SC - 2/4/18

Postby Backshophoss » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:28 am

Now the transcription of the radio messages between the freight crew and the DS will become required reading when the NTSB docket for
this wreck is available for the public.
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Re: Amtrak 91 - CSX Collision Cayce, SC - 2/4/18

Postby mark777 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:12 am

I don't think that I would be surprised if the trainmaster would have been questioned. I would expect that anyone that had anything to do with the movement of either train would be questioned by the FBI or the NTSB. On a side note here, and correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that after the accident at Frankfort Jct, that it was the NTSB that requested that the FBI join the investigation after inspectors found what appeared to be cracks on the front windshield of the ACS-64 that might have been created by an object that was thrown at the train. That was in the spot light considering that both a SEPTA train and Acela suffered window strikes by objects being thrown at the trains. That would lead me to think that the FBI doesn't regularly involve itself with most rail accidents but would intervene if asked to or if there was suspicion of foul play. I could be wrong, but there has to be some suspicion that there could have been foul play if they are there. Most likely however, and I expect it to happen sooner than later, the FBI will step aside an let the NTSB continue it's investigation that was the result of not lining the switch back to it's normal position. I would also say that if the CSX crew adamantly swear that they DID realign the switch and locked it, then they are not lying to investigators as their personal recollection was that they did what they were suppose to do. They could even take a lie detector test and promise you they will pass. The only thing that could happen if they determine that they forgot to realign the switch is possibly lose their employment at CSX, but I would highly doubt that the FBI would pursue them with criminal charges.
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Re: Amtrak 91 - CSX Collision Cayce, SC - 2/4/18

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:25 am

I still think we need establish:

Was or wasn't this Trainmaster on the ground and at the scene when the crew tied down their train?

Yes I know Yäger's disciples have not done much to restore morale on the property - especially for non-Agreement employees, but there is still a railroad to run and Rules by which it is run.
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Re: Amtrak 91 - CSX Collision Cayce, SC - 2/4/18

Postby DutchRailnut » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:10 am

Mr Norman I suggest you watch the NTSB news briefings on NTSB.gov
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: Amtrak 91 - CSX Collision Cayce, SC - 2/4/18

Postby Wayside » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:13 am

Gilbert B Norman wrote:I still think we need establish:

Was or wasn't this Trainmaster on the ground and at the scene when the crew tied down their train?


I don't have an answer for this but I do know from direct experience that it is SOP for NTSB to interview local operating managers as investigators initiate the process, whether these managers were "on the scene" or not.
We don't know what we don't know.
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Re: Amtrak 91 - CSX Collision Cayce, SC - 2/4/18

Postby 8th Notch » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:25 pm

Track layout of accident area.
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