As Vile As It Gets!!!

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Re: As Vile As It Gets!!!

Postby Tadman » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:17 am

ryanov wrote: If Amtrak can’t succesfully fire a rapist, that’s on them.


I don't think the victim or her family would be ok with that line of reasoning. Any recovery from Amtrak does not change the end result. It's not like having $10,000 stolen and getting $10,000 restitution. There is no restitution for something like this. Amtrak could pay $10 trillion in damages and it doesn't change the fact that this person's rights were heinously violated.
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Re: As Vile As It Gets!!!

Postby STrRedWolf » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:25 am

On firing him and keeping him out, it's already done. From the article:

Criminal charges were refiled in December 2015, and on September 23, 2016, a jury convicted Pinner of kidnapping and sexual intercourse without consent. He was sentenced to 60 years in prison in January of this year, and is currently located at the Crossroads Correctional Center in Shelby. He has filed to appeal the case with the Montana Supreme Court, but has not yet filed any briefs supporting his appeal. He is now 61 years old.


If the conviction sticks, he'll be past retirement age if he gets "half time" -- plus that's sure to label him a sexual predator. Ether way, he's not on the job any more. Amtrak won't want him back. If the union wants him back there, that union's pining for legal action against themselves.

If that lawyer for the family is smart, he/she would sue Amtrak and the union together.
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Re: As Vile As It Gets!!!

Postby n2cbo » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:26 pm

rohr turbo wrote:
Railjunkie wrote:
Computers don't fall asleep at the controls (Spuyten Duyvil), text and give joyrides (Chatsworth), or lose track of their location (Phila.).



Until they malfunction................
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Re: As Vile As It Gets!!!

Postby Deval » Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:07 pm

The union didn't hire this guy. Amtrak did.
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Re: As Vile As It Gets!!!

Postby STrRedWolf » Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:23 am

Deval wrote:The union didn't hire this guy. Amtrak did.


And Amtrak fired him the first time around. The union got him reinstated. Thus if the union gets him back in again, the union is more than culpable. Read the thread.
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Re: As Vile As It Gets!!!

Postby David Benton » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:09 pm

hindsight is a wonderful thing. i doubt either amtrak or the union had an inkling this would escalate to the terrible conclusion it did.
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Re: As Vile As It Gets!!!

Postby BandA » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:22 pm

I know of a case at the Post Office where an employee was fired for groping women, and the union got him reinstated. Don't know if it continued. Certainly his peers didn't like working with him. There are many cases of police officers who are fired for misbehavior towards citizens, then reinstated with back pay, sent back onto the streets where they again misbehave. Unions are not held accountable, nor are judges who have poor judgment.
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Re: As Vile As It Gets!!!

Postby electricron » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:08 am

BandA wrote:I know of a case at the Post Office where an employee was fired for groping women, and the union got him reinstated. Don't know if it continued. Certainly his peers didn't like working with him. There are many cases of police officers who are fired for misbehavior towards citizens, then reinstated with back pay, sent back onto the streets where they again misbehave. Unions are not held accountable, nor are judges who have poor judgment.

I*t's not the "Union's" job to grade anyone's character, it's their job to represent all their union members during labor-management contractual talks. The contracts can often get very messy.
In some states judges face reelection on a regular basis, voters will have the opportunity to unelected some. In other states, judges are elected for life, and state representatives and state senators can impeach them. So in some way or another, judges are held accountable.
Unions are held accountable by their membership, when the union bosses ignore the wishes of the majority of their membership, they can get fired at the union's next convention.
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Re: As Vile As It Gets!!!

Postby BandA » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:57 am

electricron wrote:
BandA wrote:I know of a case at the Post Office where an employee was fired for groping women, and the union got him reinstated. Don't know if it continued. Certainly his peers didn't like working with him. There are many cases of police officers who are fired for misbehavior towards citizens, then reinstated with back pay, sent back onto the streets where they again misbehave. Unions are not held accountable, nor are judges who have poor judgment.

I*t's not the "Union's" job to grade anyone's character, it's their job to represent all their union members during labor-management contractual talks. The contracts can often get very messy.
In some states judges face reelection on a regular basis, voters will have the opportunity to unelected some. In other states, judges are elected for life, and state representatives and state senators can impeach them. So in some way or another, judges are held accountable.
Unions are held accountable by their membership, when the union bosses ignore the wishes of the majority of their membership, they can get fired at the union's next convention.
In the case of government and these quasi-government agencies, management is much weaker than the union and cannot stand up to them. Also state and federal boards often side overwhelmingly with unions in disputes.

Getting [OT], but in my state, judges are appointed for life by the governor and there is no way for the state reps or senators to impeach them; It takes gross, gross negligence plus major public spotlight to get them to sometimes resign/retire/be removed by the state supreme court. The Governor's Council reviews judicial appointments but it is usually a rubber-stamp. There is the case of the atty who had the same name as another atty, they appointed the wrong one to be a judge, oops lifetime appointment. They also bring back retired judges who have questionable records or deteriorating mental health to help with the backlog of cases.
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Re: As Vile As It Gets!!!

Postby mmi16 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:29 am

rohr turbo wrote:I mean no disrespect, but consider:

ryanov wrote: This is not a “different world” and workplaces are still dangerous today. .


Look around you and recognize that it IS a different world from 100 years ago. Dangerous workplace? Yes, for the rape victim. For competent employees, not so bad.

ryanov wrote: If Amtrak can’t succesfully fire a rapist, that’s on them.


Others would say that if Amtrak (semi-governmental, with strong legal team) cannot fire a Union-represented rapist, then maybe the system is broken.

Further, look at all the non-union industries today. Generally well-paid, safe, comfortable (and the bad apples can be removed.)


Only well paid and safe BECAUSE Unions lead the way. Had not Unions lead the way there would still be sweat shops with child labor and dangerous working conditions.
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Re: As Vile As It Gets!!!

Postby mmi16 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:33 am

BandA wrote:I know of a case at the Post Office where an employee was fired for groping women, and the union got him reinstated. Don't know if it continued. Certainly his peers didn't like working with him. There are many cases of police officers who are fired for misbehavior towards citizens, then reinstated with back pay, sent back onto the streets where they again misbehave. Unions are not held accountable, nor are judges who have poor judgment.

And as we are seeing there are numerous cases where men of power have been serial gropers and rapers for decades without any union involvement. Do I have to include the names that you are seeing on a daily basis ?????????? Should we start with the President and work our way down?
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