Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Order

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Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby Ryand-Smith » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:15 pm

Tadman wrote:In related news:

https://www.nwitimes.com/business/local ... 7.amp.html

After the Nippon Sharyo fiasco at Amtrak, not only did they close the Rochelle plant, it’s looking like they don’t want any North American busienss now. Before Rochelle, South Shore cars were built partially in Japan. NICTD is actively looking at other bidders and it appears N-S doesn’t want to work with Super Steel like they once did.


If I was Bombardier I would use this as a "We can do this" since they can make a single level EMU (a modified M7) or Kawasaki could give them a M8) while they overhaul the M9s.

On topic, have any of the Siemens cars been completed yet?
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Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby gokeefe » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:38 pm

Not yet but per previous reports we are potentially only a few weeks away from the completion of the first car.
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Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby Backshophoss » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:54 pm

You mean the M-8 blind trailer cars,right??
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Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby hs3730 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:33 am

Heh, South Shore line complaining:
Article posted by tadman wrote:"We run on a different configuration, different power than anyone else in the country," Noland said.

1.5kvdc overhead is extremely common outside North America. CRRC has been building bilevel EMUs on 1.5kv DC overhead for Sydney for the past 5 years or so. Hopefully NICTD doesn't go down the same road that killed N-S in the first place with this new order...

Back on topic, what are the chances they'll release a picture of the first completed Siemens car? They released pics of the shell of their first Brightline coach...
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Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby mtuandrew » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:51 am

hs3730 wrote:Heh, South Shore line complaining:
Article posted by tadman wrote:"We run on a different configuration, different power than anyone else in the country," Noland said.

1.5kvdc overhead is extremely common outside North America. CRRC has been building bilevel EMUs on 1.5kv DC overhead for Sydney for the past 5 years or so. Hopefully NICTD doesn't go down the same road that killed N-S in the first place with this new order...

Beyond the fact that railcar builders have been building medium-voltage MUs for literally over 100 years, 1.5kVDC is a comparatively small step from 750VDC as used on both LIRR and MNRR. As long as NICTD can find a bilevel supplier, they can find a supplier that can work with this voltage. (It would be pretty wild to see a Bombardier BiLevel MU for instance.)

Back on topic, what are the chances they'll release a picture of the first completed Siemens car? They released pics of the shell of their first Brightline coach...

I’d bet yes. States are gonna want to see where their money went ASAP!
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Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby ApproachMedium » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:16 pm

I think part of the issue here is going to be that the south shore really likes those NS gallery MUs and probably wants to keep the same style car and same parts. Finding somebody that will cooperate with that, might be difficult.
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Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby bdawe » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:35 am

It's quite possible that the last gallery car has been built and put in service.

Tying themselves to that moribund lineage is just kicking the can down the road, no?
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Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby Backshophoss » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:05 am

The "Last" builder standing of the Gallery Cars is BBD,they hold the Pullman-Standard designs.
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Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby mtuandrew » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:00 am

Mr. Dawe: why are the gallery cars obsolete? They hold as many passengers as a BBD BiLevel and more than either a Superliner family car or a BBD MultiLevel, and can be more easily supervised by a single conductor. That said, there’s nothing saying they need to be built the same as in 1950.

Hoss: and we all know how likely BBD is to build gallery cars, or to release the P-S plans to another builder. :P Stadler would take a shot though, they’ve stated that they will build pretty much anything on rails.

We are way off track, aren’t we?
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Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby Arlington » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:48 am

Is it fair to say the gallery cars have the gallery because they are designed to maximize the labor efficiency of manual, paper ticket collection?

On Intercity routes speed of ticket collection is less critical, and in the future where proof of payment maybe electronic and remote, haven't gallery cars forced compromises in access, seating, and weirdness that just aren't worth it?
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Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby mtuandrew » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:04 am

Arlington: that’s why they were built, but have the additional benefits of high aisle headroom and level-floor seating for all main-level passengers. There are high/low versions out there too, on Metra Electric and South Shore. Definitely better as unreserved equipment though.
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Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby bdawe » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:16 am

mtuandrew wrote:Mr. Dawe: why are the gallery cars obsolete? They hold as many passengers as a BBD BiLevel and more than either a Superliner family car or a BBD MultiLevel, and can be more easily supervised by a single conductor. That said, there’s nothing saying they need to be built the same as in 1950.


In the sense that the FRA-qualified design is obsolete and no longer legally necessary, that NS are refusing to build them its not unlikely that there won't be more of them, and in the sense that the bunch-of-conductors-check-every-ticket-and-sells-tickets-to-people-without them is pretty much obsolete for mass transit purposes and has been abandoned outside old US commuter rail lines.
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Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby eolesen » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:52 pm

You can say that check-every-ticket is obsolete, but we're dealing with agencies who need every dollar in farebox recovery they can get. SO yes, they do check every rider. And they should.
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Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby ApproachMedium » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:25 am

As we move from paper ticket collection to electronic this style design is becoming annoying, i am sure, and obsolete. The MBTA and NJ Transit apps for ticketing require the riders to show the display to the conductor. Well i am sure it is not as easy to see 7 feet in the air.
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Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby eolesen » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:09 am

Au contrare. Metra and I believe the CSSSB also have onboard apps - a valid ticket produces a moving graphic that changes colors when you tap the screen (some conductors ask riders to tap, others don’t).

No problems at all being visible from 10+ feet away.

Ticket checking may seem annoying, but it requires less than five minutes to check a fully loaded car, a little longer if they have to stop and collect cash. With one trainman for every three cars, this isn’t an inconvenience since that’s what they’re onboard to do other (than the safety related portion of the job).

Lots of reasons not to like gallery cars, but ticket inspection isn’t one of them. It’s the primary advantage they hold over a split level or two level car.
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