Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Order

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, gprimr1, Amtrak67 of America, Tadman

Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby daybeers » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:16 am

I would venture to say that the time savings of no longer checking tickets at the gate outweighs the relatively few who get confused. They would even try this at a smaller station like Hartford, CT, where 100+ passengers are trying to board two Amfleet cars when it's probably already running late. People would be hurrying in with their luggage and would be stopped abruptly by the conductor and would have to fish in their bag or on the often-buggy Amtrak app for their ticket. This cost precious minutes.

I think the problem at the root of this issue is that American society is so far from revolving around trains like it was only a few decades ago. Overseas it is very common for one to take the train to get somewhere efficiently, on time, comfortably, and relatively inexpensively. However, here in the United States, we have a very car-centric culture, which is why many don't know how to use public transportation. I do think if we had the "Push to Open" buttons (which I myself have never understood the need for), society would be used to them and would know exactly what to do. It's not the American people, it's the American society.
daybeers
 
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:13 pm

Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby ApproachMedium » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:21 am

The other issue they have, with a station like Hartford is there should not be a real need to check tickets like that because what else is boarding there? Maybe the wrong train number, but you arent fighting different directions to multiple destinations and multiple railroads like NYP, South Station, DC Union etc. One major solution is If Amfleets had the LONG DOORS so that conductors could open all doors that cover the platform even with getting up and down the stairs people could get on and off the trains faster. It isnt 1940 anymore, we dont have car attendants in every coach opening and closing door traps to let passengers on and off. Its time for amtrak to get up to speed with the technology. Like ive said before, if you saw the difference of loading/unloading an NJ Transit train which uses this new system VS how amtrak boards (Newark DE, Aberdeen MD just thru the cafe car.) you would be amazed how much quicker station stops go even with just two crewmembers and 8-10 cars!
No good deed goes unpunished.
User avatar
ApproachMedium
 
Posts: 5849
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 9:44 pm
Location: From here to There

Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby daybeers » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:02 am

Thankfully Hartford was gifted a high-level platform in summer 2016 in preparation for the new Hartford Line commuter rail service, so the traps are not an issue anymore, and I haven't seen them check tickets on the platform in a while.

Would you mind explaining how long doors work? I'm guessing there are two levels in order to serve both types of platforms and motors retract some sort of plat covering the stairs when arriving at a low-level platform? I hope the Amfleet replacements will have these, because yes, they do save lots and lots of time. Berlin, Meriden, and Wallingford, three other smallish stops on the New Haven–Springfield Line, were also reconstructed, including high-level platforms, and it makes the stops so much faster, not to mention the savings on not having to drag out one of those wheelchair lifts! :-)
daybeers
 
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:13 pm

Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby EuroStar » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:51 am

daybeers wrote:Would you mind explaining how long doors work?


Take a look here https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NJ_Transit_multilevel_passeger_car_7575.JPG. Look at the end doors. That is one piece door even though it looks like two! What makes is look like two is a retractable bar that retracts together with the door at low level platforms. At low level platforms both the door and the bar retract exposing the stairs. At high level platforms the bar is supposed to stay in place to prevent excessive gap between the train and the platform. The "trap door", that is the piece of the internal car floor that needs to disappear in order to expose the stairs from inside is manually operated (this cannot really be automated). That piece of the floor is basically hindged and lifts up to become vertical instead of horizontal. There are sensors that sense whether the trap door is up (vertical) or down (horizontal flat with the rest of the car floor). The conductor has two sets of buttons for "open high" and "open low". Open high only opens the doors where the traps are down as indicated by each door's sensor. Open low only opens the doors where the traps are up (and the internal stairs are exposed to the inside of the car).

While it is correct that this system has sped up boarding because all doors can be opened (assuming the traps are correctly positioned) the reality is that the proper way to do this at any high ridership station is to have high level platforms. The MTA (LIRR and Metro-North) moved to high level platforms only long time ago and their EMUs are high level only. (There are some exceptions, low level platforms can still be found on eastern Long Island). NJT did away with low level platforms on the NEC a while ago, but they stalled on the high level platforms on the other lines. There are stations (Millburn?) where low level boarding takes 3-4 minutes during rush hour versus probably1-1.5 minutes it will require with high level platform.
EuroStar
 
Posts: 576
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:26 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere

Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby Tadman » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:36 am

ApproachMedium wrote: They need to have a uniformed location system for the platforms so people know where to stand and the trains need to all stop at the same place. In a place like penn station NY every platform is different the locations vary in fact im not even sure they are labeled anymore and often now with the station construction work we have to pull all the way to the far ends of a platform because the one end is covered up and not usable.


Agreed, having uniform platform locators would be great and inexpensive.
Tadman
 
Posts: 8881
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:21 am

Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby Tadman » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:39 am

EuroStar wrote: the reality is that the proper way to do this at any high ridership station is to have high level platforms.


Agreed, and going back to the Hiawatha example: Milwaukee station was just comprehensively rebuilt. The Hi runs 5x/day with a fixed consist. You mean to tell me it was too much trouble to put in a pocket track with depressed tracks for level-boarding? I mean those trains are the only reason that station exists, if it was just the Builder, an unlit shelter would suffice. And given the frequency of the Hi in Chicago, they can't dedicate on platform to her with a depressed track for level boarding, or a high platform?
Tadman
 
Posts: 8881
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:21 am

Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby mtuandrew » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:42 am

Wasn’t Milwaukee Intermodal rebuilt with bilevels and/or Talgos in mind, and contracts let before N-S officially failed out of their subcontract? A high platform would have been worse than useless.
User avatar
mtuandrew
 
Posts: 5132
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:59 am
Location: the Manassas Gap Independent Line

Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby eolesen » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:39 pm

Tadman wrote:I'd like to see pics of the interior of a gallery car from the CNW long distance fleet, especially the chairs. On commuter gallery cars, the chairs would be rough for >2 hour rides, but the same was true for Comets. They made decent >2 hour cars with standard Amtrak seats. You could do the same with gallery cars perhaps.


The CNW cars were set up for long-distance seating upstairs and downstairs. If I recall, single Haywood-Wakefield seats, and ~15-24" walkway along the safety rail. There are a few pictures in the Scirbbins 400 Story.

I ride ~75-90 minutes a couple times a week on Metra. I could see having Metra running short intercity runs under two hours (e.g. Chicago-Milwaukee or Chicago-Dekalb), provided they used newer cars with working lavatories...


I've said it before and will say it again... as long as Amtrak's ridership west of Chicago is so low, single level cars make financial sense because they have no restrictions east of Chicago. Business case closed.
eolesen
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:01 am

Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby eolesen » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:50 am

Found a few images of the CNW bi-levels over on FineArtAmerica's website, posted by the CNWHS.

Capture- 20181114-0350.jpg

Capture- 20181114-0351.jpg
Capture- 20181114-0352.jpg
eolesen
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:01 am

Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby bostontrainguy » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:50 pm

I can see a few bumped heads along the way.
bostontrainguy
 
Posts: 1335
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:14 am

Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby Jeff Smith » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:53 pm

Hey, does anyone have any idea what the status of the Single Level Cars is? COUGH COUGH EFFING COUGH. :-D :P :wink:
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator
Jeff Smith
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7848
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:28 am
Location: MP 67.2 Georgia Southern Railway

Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby eolesen » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:04 pm

Jeff Smith wrote:Hey, does anyone have any idea what the status of the Single Level Cars is? COUGH COUGH EFFING COUGH. :-D :P :wink:


Hey, did anyone read the status update posted on 10-27, which said the responses to the Amtrak new passenger car/DMU RFI were due back to Amtrak in mid-October?.... or that the first few 8 shells for the Cal/Midwest consortium are already in production?...

Until then, we get to speculate and swing off-topic until Amtrak makes some decisions. At their normal rate, it will be sometime in late 2019.
eolesen
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:01 am

Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby Station Aficionado » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:26 pm

Jeff Smith wrote:Hey, does anyone have any idea what the status of the Single Level Cars is? COUGH COUGH EFFING COUGH. :-D :P :wink:

To my not always agile mind, one of the biggest factors holding back expanded rail service is the lack of coaches. We are almost ten years on from the coming of the Obama administration, the infusion of stimulus funding, and the beginning of more generous appropriations, and yet not a single intercity coach has been been completed for Amtrak or its state partners. That is plainly a failure.
Station Aficionado
 
Posts: 1728
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:15 pm
Location: Virginia

Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby Nasadowsk » Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:20 am

Station Aficionado wrote:We are almost ten years on from the coming of the Obama administration, the infusion of stimulus funding, and the beginning of more generous appropriations, and yet not a single intercity coach has been been completed for Amtrak or its state partners. That is plainly a failure.


Meh, it's par for the course for Amtrak. Slow and late.

Of course, if Amtrak would stop insisting on everything for them being a special, custom design, and just buy off the shelf stuff. Maybe next time around now that alternate compliance is a thing...
Nasadowsk
 
Posts: 3904
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:45 pm

Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby Tadman » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:34 am

In related news:

https://www.nwitimes.com/business/local ... 7.amp.html

After the Nippon Sharyo fiasco at Amtrak, not only did they close the Rochelle plant, it’s looking like they don’t want any North American busienss now. Before Rochelle, South Shore cars were built partially in Japan. NICTD is actively looking at other bidders and it appears N-S doesn’t want to work with Super Steel like they once did.
Tadman
 
Posts: 8881
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:21 am

PreviousNext

Return to Amtrak

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: NaugyRR and 15 guests