Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Order

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Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Order

Postby Jeff Smith » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:53 pm

http://northernpublicradio.org/post/roc ... g-contract

Brief, fair-use:

Wednesday, Caltrans announced the two states and Sumitomo had reached an amended agreement. The cars, now a single-level design, will all be built at a Siemens plant in California. Caltrans cited the problems experienced by Nippon Sharyo, and the resulting delays, in its release.

In a statement to WNIJ, Nippon Sharyo acknowledged the loss of the contract, and its problems, but said – quote – “the company will continue its business operations going forward with a reduced number of employees to meet the needs of existing customers and contractual responsibilities.”

Nippon Sharyo also said it was committed to supporting affected employees and their efforts to secure new jobs.


Old topic: New Midwest/California Bi-Level Discussion
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Re: Siemens Takes Over Nippon Sharyo Order; Now Single Car

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:28 pm

As I noted at the now, and appropriately, closed topic relating to the bi-level cars, here are 20 Siemens Viaggio cars built to US specifications, that I think will be looking for a new home:

Now if the fleet of Viaggios need be augmented by twenty more (and the Chargers by ten), I can let you in a secret where they can be found ready to go (hint: 26.73N, 80.058W).
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Re: Siemens Takes Over Nippon Sharyo CA IL Order; Now Single

Postby Matt Johnson » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:22 am

I think we have a solid indication of what will eventually replace the venerable Budd Metroliner cab cars!
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Re: Siemens Takes Over Nippon Sharyo Order; Now Single Car

Postby D.Carleton » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:52 am

Gilbert B Norman wrote:As I noted at the now, and appropriately, closed topic relating to the bi-level cars, here are 20 Siemens Viaggio cars built to US specifications, that I think will be looking for a new home:
Now if the fleet of Viaggios need be augmented by twenty more (and the Chargers by ten), I can let you in a secret where they can be found ready to go (hint: 26.73N, 80.058W).
O ye of little faith.
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Re: Siemens Takes Over Nippon Sharyo Order; Now Single Car

Postby Nasadowsk » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:19 pm

D.Carleton wrote:O ye of little faith.


I once saw a hilarious video with that line...

Back on topic, I think FEC will stick it out, despite Florida's best attempt to kill Brightline off...

Also, with the death of the high weight/low capacity bilevel order, and let's be honest, the Siemens cars are still pigs, but between this, the 'alternate compliance' rules, the KISS order (hello, NJ Transit..), and Texas being Texas, I'm wondering if the SUV-era is over in US passenger train equipment...

(Funny how it follows the rise and downfall of a certain manufacturer who's demonstrated an ability to not be able to do anything right....)
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Re: Siemens Takes Over Nippon Sharyo CA IL Order; Now Single

Postby Tadman » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:12 pm

Overall, not surprising given the circus act of rolling stock procurement we've seen over the last few decades, but still tremendously disappointing. The order should've been split up and California and the Midwest go their own ways, because a fleet of gallery cars would've been just fine for the Midwest (not would've, more like "always were" given the use of gallery cars on the Flambeau 400, Illinois Zephyr, etc...) The seat-miles to car-miles are fantastic and the cars had an assembly line ready and waiting, no new designs needed. But what do I know, I'm just a taxpayer.
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Re: Siemens Takes Over Nippon Sharyo CA IL Order; Now Single

Postby gokeefe » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:28 pm

Matt Johnson wrote:I think we have a solid indication of what will eventually teplace the venerable Budd Metroliner cab cars!


The last line was perhaps the most interesting:

Production will begin within the year and run through 2023.


Delivery of test cars could be within a matter of months.
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Re: Siemens Takes Over Nippon Sharyo CA IL Order; Now Single

Postby frequentflyer » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:38 pm

Tadman wrote:Overall, not surprising given the circus act of rolling stock procurement we've seen over the last few decades, but still tremendously disappointing. The order should've been split up and California and the Midwest go their own ways, because a fleet of gallery cars would've been just fine for the Midwest (not would've, more like "always were" given the use of gallery cars on the Flambeau 400, Illinois Zephyr, etc...) The seat-miles to car-miles are fantastic and the cars had an assembly line ready and waiting, no new designs needed. But what do I know, I'm just a taxpayer.


Gallery cars are for commuter service and not intercity. How would using commuter cars increase ridership?
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Re: Siemens Takes Over Nippon Sharyo CA IL Order; Now Single

Postby gokeefe » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:56 pm

Because they have higher capacity per car than what Amtrak is considering.

Gallery cars in particular have been excluded because they do not meet comfort standards that Amtrak takes into account (along with states on the procurement committee) when considering intercity travel.
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Re: Siemens Takes Over Nippon Sharyo CA IL Order; Now Single

Postby matthewsaggie » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:19 pm

I'm curious. Did anyone here ride the old C&NW bi-level long distance cars--Pre-Amtrak? How were they configured inside? Were they comfortable or were they just commuter type seating and equipment?
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Re: Siemens Takes Over Nippon Sharyo CA IL Order; Now Single

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:12 am

Yup.

They had reclining seats with a reasonable pitch, and we're comfortable enough on my 1966 Chi-MILW ride.
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Re: Siemens Takes Over Nippon Sharyo CA IL Order; Now Single

Postby Matt Johnson » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:06 pm

I've never been a fan of gallery cars but here's a throwback to their brief stint in Amtrak service: http://www.railpictures.net/photo/637791/
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Re: Siemens Takes Over Nippon Sharyo CA IL Order; Now Single

Postby Jeff Smith » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:10 pm

Admin: Brightline SERVICE and OWNED EQUIPMENT is henceforth and forevermore off-topic in this thread. They are not relevant.

If that type of equipment or something based on that type of equipment is what Siemens proposes for the "mid-west/Cali" order, and you want to talk about similarities and differences to Brightline's equipment that's fine. BUT NOT Brightline's ACTUAL equipment being sold off, acquired, transferred, or any disposition thereof, as there is not even a HINT of that.

If what they propose is something entirely different (and I'm not knowledgeable about what the actual proposal entails), then we shouldn't be talking about BL at all.

Thank you in advance.
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Re: Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Or

Postby Matt Johnson » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:00 pm

I became a fan of the Superliner equipment during my 2013 cross country excursion via Capitol Limited, Southwest Chief, Pacific Surfliner, Coast Starlight, & Empire Builder but nonetheless I never felt like the bilevel was the ideal car for 110 mph corridor ops. I suspect these Siemens single level cars will offer superior ride quality and I look forward to testing that theory firsthand. But here's a glimpse into what might have been: Superliner coaches subbing for single level on the Michigan corridor. It's rare to see the Superliner equipment at 100 mph!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GIrTHAMcNQ
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Re: Siemens Takes Over Nippon Sharyo CA IL Order; Now Single

Postby Tadman » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:44 pm

frequentflyer wrote:Gallery cars are for commuter service and not intercity. How would using commuter cars increase ridership?


This kind of statement drives me nuts. There is nothing in the Bible, FRA regs, Torah, Koran, Encyclopedia Brittanica, ad nauseum that gallery cars are for commuter and not intercity. It's a train car. It has been used in the past for regional service. It is not a stretch to equip the car with Amfleet or business class seats to meet 2+ hour comfort needs.

Here's the real kicker: it's a bloody proven design. Yeah. Imagine that. There's thousands of them rolling around Chicago, San Francisco, Washington DC, Montreal, Nashville. They do HEP, they do push-pull, there's an open production line that just finished building cars for Chicago. By the same company that supposedly could not build this new car design.

But we gotta have some thing new and shiny and guess what? We screwed it up as much as possible. The worst rolling stock procurement ever in the states. Stevie Wonder and Hellen Keller could've done this better. Once again, Icarus flew past the sun and crashed.

I had a law professor that used to say "folks you just can't make this up" and he was talking about stuff like this.
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