Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL fka Nippon Sharyo Order

[Jeff Smith]

http://northernpublicradio.org/post/roc ... g-contract

Brief, fair-use:

Wednesday, Caltrans announced the two states and Sumitomo had reached an amended agreement. The cars, now a single-level design, will all be built at a Siemens plant in California. Caltrans cited the problems experienced by Nippon Sharyo, and the resulting delays, in its release.

In a statement to WNIJ, Nippon Sharyo acknowledged the loss of the contract, and its problems, but said – quote – “the company will continue its business operations going forward with a reduced number of employees to meet the needs of existing customers and contractual responsibilities.”

Nippon Sharyo also said it was committed to supporting affected employees and their efforts to secure new jobs.

Old topic: New Midwest/California Bi-Level Discussion

[Gilbert B Norman]

As I noted at the now, and appropriately, closed topic relating to the bi-level cars, here are 20 Siemens Viaggio cars built to US specifications, that I think will be looking for a new home:

Now if the fleet of Viaggios need be augmented by twenty more (and the Chargers by ten), I can let you in a secret where they can be found ready to go (hint: 26.73N, 80.058W).

[Matt Johnson]

I think we have a solid indication of what will eventually replace the venerable Budd Metroliner cab cars!

[D.Carleton]

As I noted at the now, and appropriately, closed topic relating to the bi-level cars, here are 20 Siemens Viaggio cars built to US specifications, that I think will be looking for a new home:

Now if the fleet of Viaggios need be augmented by twenty more (and the Chargers by ten), I can let you in a secret where they can be found ready to go (hint: 26.73N, 80.058W).

O ye of little faith.

[Nasadowsk]

O ye of little faith.

I once saw a hilarious video with that line...

Back on topic, I think FEC will stick it out, despite Florida's best attempt to kill Brightline off...

Also, with the death of the high weight/low capacity bilevel order, and let's be honest, the Siemens cars are still pigs, but between this, the 'alternate compliance' rules, the KISS order (hello, NJ Transit..), and Texas being Texas, I'm wondering if the SUV-era is over in US passenger train equipment...

(Funny how it follows the rise and downfall of a certain manufacturer who's demonstrated an ability to not be able to do anything right....)

[Tadman]

Overall, not surprising given the circus act of rolling stock procurement we've seen over the last few decades, but still tremendously disappointing. The order should've been split up and California and the Midwest go their own ways, because a fleet of gallery cars would've been just fine for the Midwest (not would've, more like "always were" given the use of gallery cars on the Flambeau 400, Illinois Zephyr, etc...) The seat-miles to car-miles are fantastic and the cars had an assembly line ready and waiting, no new designs needed. But what do I know, I'm just a taxpayer.

[gokeefe]

I think we have a solid indication of what will eventually teplace the venerable Budd Metroliner cab cars!

The last line was perhaps the most interesting:

Production will begin within the year and run through 2023.

Delivery of test cars could be within a matter of months.

[frequentflyer]

Overall, not surprising given the circus act of rolling stock procurement we've seen over the last few decades, but still tremendously disappointing. The order should've been split up and California and the Midwest go their own ways, because a fleet of gallery cars would've been just fine for the Midwest (not would've, more like "always were" given the use of gallery cars on the Flambeau 400, Illinois Zephyr, etc...) The seat-miles to car-miles are fantastic and the cars had an assembly line ready and waiting, no new designs needed. But what do I know, I'm just a taxpayer.

Gallery cars are for commuter service and not intercity. How would using commuter cars increase ridership?

[gokeefe]

Because they have higher capacity per car than what Amtrak is considering.

Gallery cars in particular have been excluded because they do not meet comfort standards that Amtrak takes into account (along with states on the procurement committee) when considering intercity travel.

[matthewsaggie]

I'm curious. Did anyone here ride the old C&NW bi-level long distance cars--Pre-Amtrak? How were they configured inside? Were they comfortable or were they just commuter type seating and equipment?

[Gilbert B Norman]

Yup.

They had reclining seats with a reasonable pitch, and we're comfortable enough on my 1966 Chi-MILW ride.

[Matt Johnson]

I've never been a fan of gallery cars but here's a throwback to their brief stint in Amtrak service: http://www.railpictures.net/photo/637791/

[Jeff Smith]

Admin: Brightline SERVICE and OWNED EQUIPMENT is henceforth and forevermore off-topic in this thread. They are not relevant.

If that type of equipment or something based on that type of equipment is what Siemens proposes for the "mid-west/Cali" order, and you want to talk about similarities and differences to Brightline's equipment that's fine. BUT NOT Brightline's ACTUAL equipment being sold off, acquired, transferred, or any disposition thereof, as there is not even a HINT of that.

If what they propose is something entirely different (and I'm not knowledgeable about what the actual proposal entails), then we shouldn't be talking about BL at all.

Thank you in advance.

[Matt Johnson]

I became a fan of the Superliner equipment during my 2013 cross country excursion via Capitol Limited, Southwest Chief, Pacific Surfliner, Coast Starlight, & Empire Builder but nonetheless I never felt like the bilevel was the ideal car for 110 mph corridor ops. I suspect these Siemens single level cars will offer superior ride quality and I look forward to testing that theory firsthand. But here's a glimpse into what might have been: Superliner coaches subbing for single level on the Michigan corridor. It's rare to see the Superliner equipment at 100 mph!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GIrTHAMcNQ

[Tadman]

Gallery cars are for commuter service and not intercity. How would using commuter cars increase ridership?

This kind of statement drives me nuts. There is nothing in the Bible, FRA regs, Torah, Koran, Encyclopedia Brittanica, ad nauseum that gallery cars are for commuter and not intercity. It's a train car. It has been used in the past for regional service. It is not a stretch to equip the car with Amfleet or business class seats to meet 2+ hour comfort needs.

Here's the real kicker: it's a bloody proven design. Yeah. Imagine that. There's thousands of them rolling around Chicago, San Francisco, Washington DC, Montreal, Nashville. They do HEP, they do push-pull, there's an open production line that just finished building cars for Chicago. By the same company that supposedly could not build this new car design.

But we gotta have some thing new and shiny and guess what? We screwed it up as much as possible. The worst rolling stock procurement ever in the states. Stevie Wonder and Hellen Keller could've done this better. Once again, Icarus flew past the sun and crashed.

I had a law professor that used to say "folks you just can't make this up" and he was talking about stuff like this.