Amtrak Expansion Plan

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Amtrak Expansion Plan

Postby bostontrainguy » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:12 pm

Some interesting info on an expansion plan for Amtrak from 2000. The Florida East Coast idea should still be implemented. Also, the idea of a cross Canada (Buffalo - Detroit) Lake Shore Limited (?) has potential (think the New York City to Detroit market minus the freight congestion). The Florida to Boston train is an awesome idea (would use that one myself). Anyway, some interesting reading:

https://www.ble-t.org/pr/archive/headline022800a.html
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Re: Amtrak Expansion Plan

Postby Bostontoallpoints » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:32 pm

The expansion of service proposed in 2000 was all tied into Amtrak's mail and express service. When that service ended so did this expansion.
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Re: Amtrak Expansion Plan

Postby Philly Amtrak Fan » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:32 pm

Yes, that was Amtrak's "Network Growth Strategy" which was discussed in this report: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d02398.pdf

Some still are discussed. I still hold out hope (false?) about a Broadway. I feel there should be BOS-Florida service of some kind but they'd have to deal with Shore Line East (I think they should just extend one of the Virginia cars down to Florida or the SM to Boston). Also most if not all like the "Crescent Star" proposal. Finally you have the Sunset Limited reroute via Abilene. I know most of these are discussed in separate threads, not sure about the SL reroute (feel free to post a link).

Two pages from the summer 2000 timetable discussed possible implementations that never got off the ground. So Amtrak definitely planned to do them:

"Skyline Connection": Train from Chicago to Philadelphia (terminated in Philly, no direct service to NYP, schedule is listed) via Cleveland/Toledo: http://timetables.org/full.php?group=20 ... &item=0030

Florida/Boston extension (no times/schedules listed): http://timetables.org/full.php?group=20 ... &item=0034

At that point the Pennsylvanian ran PHL-CHI (not to/from NYP) as a day train leaving both ends really early in the morning and arriving at the other end really late at night. It was virtually worthless for endpoint traffic but decent for midpoint traffic (actually served Ohio outside of the graveyard shift for a change).

There might be others in that schedule as well different.
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Re: Amtrak Expansion Plan

Postby Noel Weaver » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:50 pm

All this is just fine but it takes MONEY! MONEY! MONEY! and more MONEY, where is it coming from?
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Re: Amtrak Expansion Plan

Postby Philly Amtrak Fan » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:26 pm

Find out some worthless crap no one rides and get rid of it, use the money/equipment on that.
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Re: Amtrak Expansion Plan

Postby Greg Moore » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:54 pm

Well as explained, this was the 2000 plan based on the mail and express service. So, fantasy then and now.
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Re: Amtrak Expansion Plan

Postby mtuandrew » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:10 pm

M&E then, PRIIA now - except the PRIIA state support has proven to be much more durable than the Mail & Express initiative ever was.

I do wonder whether a road that is aggressively cutting staff-hours and facilities (cough CSX cough) would consider partnering with Amtrak on running high-priority freight in mixed trains. For instance, the much-diminished Juice Train could nearly be small enough to be hauled by the Silver Meteor between Newark and Florida.
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Re: Amtrak Expansion Plan

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:24 am

There was much discussion of the so-called "Network Growth Strategy" originating back when I was "at the throttle" around here. This was brought to you by the same gang that thought full page ads in The Times and Journal featuring women's earrings of Acela power units was a good way to spend advertising $$$. All told, those of us active around here recognized the NGS for what it was - a crock:

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=9051&start=75
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Re: Amtrak Expansion Plan

Postby electricron » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:32 am

Amtrak Expansion Plans, since the widespread adoption of the internet by the masses, "a gift that keeps on giving". In this case 17 years of giving but never-the-less amounting to nothing.
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Re: Amtrak Expansion Plan

Postby bostontrainguy » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:00 am

mtuandrew wrote: I do wonder whether a road that is aggressively cutting staff-hours and facilities (cough CSX cough) would consider partnering with Amtrak on running high-priority freight in mixed trains. For instance, the much-diminished Juice Train could nearly be small enough to be hauled by the Silver Meteor between Newark and Florida.


Actually caught a northbound freight the other day in Wildwood, FL that had about 5 Tropicana cars in the consist. I would think that high-priority fruit/produce would be a possibility for such a service.

Maybe even a resurgence of refrigerated RoadRailer service since many produce markets have let their rail infrastructure deteriorate badly and there wouldn't be much of a yard needed at the end points?
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Re: Amtrak Expansion Plan

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:23 am

Messrs. Stephens and Trainguy, uh, I think we are addressing a "been there, done that; don't really wanna go there again":

https://www.google.com/search?q=photos+ ... QqUV4y9a1M:
Last edited by Gilbert B Norman on Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Amtrak Expansion Plan

Postby sullysullinburg » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:25 am

Personally speaking, I feel that all LD trains out of NYP should start in Boston. They run through the NEC already so it would give another option from Boston to DC and would proabbaly increase revenue (A sleeper from Boston to Florida would cost more then a coach from Boston to NYP then a sleeper the rest of the way). My guess as to why they don’t do this is lack of yard space in Boston (guess I have no clue but it would make the most sense to me).
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Re: Amtrak Expansion Plan

Postby bostontrainguy » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:29 am

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Messrs. Stephens and Trainguy, uh, I think we are addressing a "been there, done that; don't really wanna go there again":


Things change. Opportunities arise. Must keep an open mind Mr. Norman. There may be better ways to implement the concept the second time around.
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Re: Amtrak Expansion Plan

Postby bostontrainguy » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:45 am

Actually I have heard reports of extending trains to Boston because of lack of space at Sunnyside in New York. Also I have heard of possible problems with servicing diners in Boston but there is a full commissary there and now that the Silver Star doesn't even have a diner, there really is no excuse.

My personal travel experience (Boston - Florida) has been very inconvenient. We have had to bring our luggage to South Station in Boston the day before our trip and pick it up the day after due to lack of through baggage service between Boston and Florida. The luggage has to go overnight on the "Night Owl". I being a railfan do this, but would the average person/family want to deal with this inconvenience? No way!
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Re: Amtrak Expansion Plan

Postby Greg Moore » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:29 am

Let's go one step further.

Extend Silver Starve to Boston and the Crescent to Albany.
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