Amtrak Operating Deficit Appears Likely to End

[Safetee]

Let's be honest. Just what perks does current Amtrak passenger service provide. On time service? Rarely. Clean trains, especially windows? Occasionally. Functioning clean rest rooms? Sometimes. Convenient passenger loading with baggage etc? Not many examples in my life time. Friendly service on and off the trains? It does happen if you're lucky. Inexpensive transport relative to other modes? Not this week.

So how does eliminating and or seriously diminishing the quality of the diners add to the enjoyability of a ride on Amtrak?? In my mind, dining car service was one of the very few remaining Amtrak perks. Eliminating the diners sure as hell won't make Amtrak a shining example of capitalism on the rails. And in the meantime, continuing to squeeze the product quality in order to appeal to the folks who cringe at the suggestion of socialism, is going to result in system bye bye. Why, because with a few exceptions in isolated rural locations, Amtrak just doesn't cut it for 21st century travelers.

[gokeefe]

While my reaction to Mr. O'Keefe's immediate is that Mr. Anderson is doing his job and the results are beginning to show, others evidently hold differing views - including this Railway Age columnist:

I felt the reference to Warrington was beneath them. They're equating a very complex non-passenger revenue enhancement effort with effective (if often unpleasant) cost cutting.

Who shot the Amtrak diner? Better food and take out dining options in stations aka "fast casual". Diners were essential, especially in the early years of Amtrak, when station facilities were absolutely decrepit everywhere.

That is no longer the case at all in many places. Amtrak also competes against itself with cheap on-board food offerrings in their wildly sucessful cafe cars which routinely sell out of stock.

[mtuandrew]

I felt the reference to Warrington was beneath them. They're equating a very complex non-passenger revenue enhancement effort with effective (if often unpleasant) cost cutting.

Who shot the Amtrak diner? Better food and take out dining options in stations aka "fast casual". Diners were essential, especially in the early years of Amtrak, when station facilities were absolutely decrepit everywhere.

That is no longer the case at all in many places. Amtrak also competes against itself with cheap on-board food offerrings in their wildly sucessful cafe cars which routinely sell out of stock.

If cafe cars are selling out routinely, that’s a big problem. Amtrak cannot afford to leave cash on the table when it’s a pretty simple matter to order more stock.

[gokeefe]

Agreed, however, that's a logistics problem. The diners had/have a fiscal problem with their operating cost structure. It appears that the sleeping car passenger market is unable to bear the actual cost of full meal service.

[David Benton]

If Amtrak's operating deficit is less than the government operating subsidy,can Amtrak use that money for capital expenditure? Sorry ,I know I have not used the correct terms , but I think most will get the gist of the question.

[benboston]

Maybe a good idea as far as making Amtrak profitable would be to split off the different regions of the country into different service providers like in Japan. there could be Amtrak Northeast, Amtrak Southeast, Amtrak Midwest, Amtrak South, Amtrak Southwest, and Amtrak Pacific. This would allow for separate management and focusing on problems more specifically. Also, this would mean that regions which function on an operating profit are separated from those who lose money which could be helpful as riders on the NEC won't be providing a subsidy to those riding the Empire Builder, allowing for easy improvements on infrastructure and capacity.

[FatNoah]

In my mind, dining car service was one of the very few remaining Amtrak perks

The dining car is one of the only reasons I could convince Mrs. FatNoah to take an overnight train. Without that, it's pretty much a no-go. We make an annual pilgrimage from Boston to Lakeland, FL to see the in-laws and end up on the Meteor because the Star no longer has a diner.

[gokeefe]

If Amtrak's operating deficit is less than the government operating subsidy,can Amtrak use that money for capital expenditure? Sorry ,I know I have not used the correct terms , but I think most will get the gist of the question.

No. The appropriation as written is specifically for operations. I don't know the exact mechanics but typically there would be a periodic (monthly or quarterly) draw of funds from the Treasury via USDOT. Any unused appropriation is void at the close of the fiscal year (or as otherwise specified by Congress).

[Greg Moore]

You know, I think if this becomes a reality (operating deficits ending), how much of a factor are the dining cars?

By not using them as much, it appears to be saving money. If this gets you into a positive territory, I suppose that's great.
BUT, I know for one, I'm LESS likely to ride a train w/o a dining car.

i.e. I'm more than willing to ride the Silver Meteor over the Star, and if they end up removing the diner (or reducing it to the abomination that the LSL has now) I'll stop riding the Crescent (which I do usually once or twice a year, both as coach and sleeping car passenger).
I suppose if they can fill my berth with someone else, they come out ahead, but if they do start to lose passengers as a result, the idea of a loss-leader diner might be appealing.

At this point I've pretty much given up on the idea of taking the LSL westward again, which is a shame, since I really was planning a few trips around a decent diner.

[FatNoah]

By not using them as much, it appears to be saving money. If this gets you into a positive territory, I suppose that's great.
BUT, I know for one, I'm LESS likely to ride a train w/o a dining car.

I'm less likely, but will still do it. The value of the train is eroded, though. Per my previous comment, it basically means a sleeper is only an option when I'm solo and not traveling with the family.

At this point I've pretty much given up on the idea of taking the LSL westward again, which is a shame, since I really was planning a few trips around a decent diner.

Until this year, I took the LSL every other year for a "get together with friends" trip in the Chicagoland area. I've done the trip about 5 times now. For the last iteration, I ended up flying. I don't mind paying a premium for the sleeper and a reasonably good benefit (hot meals) but I just can't pay extra for the sleeper and a "continental" breakfast and no hot food options. Hell, the kids option is a turkey sandwich. That means traveling with the kiddo means bringing our own food or going to the lounge car to buy our own food. No thanks.