Amtrak to re-name 30th St Station

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Re: Amtrak to re-name 30th St Station

Postby Dengor » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:59 am

While reading this thread about renaming 30th St Station after Cong. Gray, I am reminded about the time when National Airport was being renamed for Pres. Reagan. There was enthusiasm about this rename! The public was mostly supportive and I cannot remember opposition due to the cost of advertising, changing signs, timetables and maps, or potential confusion for the general public.

Now there is discussion of renaming 30th St Station for Cong. Gray. He had a much stronger connection to the train station, because he was a Philadelphia resident and he probably used it for some travels. Also, he led the fight to restore it to the magnificent building we enjoy today. So this seems like a good fit.

What is different this time to trigger all the vicious opposition to this rename? Why this time all the concern about cost and how “bad” it is to name something after a politician? Why was this not an issue when renaming an airport after a different politician?

Is the difference middle American vs a big-city north easterner?
OK to name something after a conservative but not a liberal?
OK to name something after a republican but not a democrat?
Or, as one poster said, naming the station after Gray is “probably a black thing.” Does that make it bad? Was naming the airport after Reagan “probably a white thing” and therefore OK?

I guess this is something to think about.
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Re: Amtrak to re-name 30th St Station

Postby Greg Moore » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:32 am

I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic here about renaming WASHINGTON National Airport.

But it was hugely controversial for many reasons, among the fact that is was being named after the guy who effectively busted the ATC Union.

There are people I know who to this day who refuse to call it by its "new" name.

So if you're being serious, I have to say you're hugely wrong. There was and still is a lot of controversy over renaming the airport.
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Re: Amtrak to re-name 30th St Station

Postby mtuandrew » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:16 pm

Seconded re: (K)DCA. Nationally, I imagine it wasn’t unpopular to rename the airport for Ronald Reagan, but the majority of people within the region thought it was at best obnoxious for Congress to approve the name change (being as DC doesn’t even have a vote in Congress) and at worst deeply insulting. It sounds like the opposite of Philadelphia 30th Street, where the name change was supported by local interests and meant to honor someone whose work actively benefitted the community, but that new name is not nearly as popular with people from out of the region.
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Re: Amtrak to re-name 30th St Station

Postby Suburban Station » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:34 am

this is not the case. the name change is not at all popular within philadelphia. a corrupt politician suddenly and without warning had the name changed before being sent to jail. there was no community push. decades after delaware ave was renamed columbus people still refer to it as delaware ave, so much so that locals get confused when yoe use the official name. It's 30th St Station, some schmuck tried to rename it Ben Franklin Station ten years ago and that failed because people like the current name, it works just fine. at the very least, if it's going to be changed, it should be sold to fix the building up.
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Re: Amtrak to re-name 30th St Station

Postby Suburban Station » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:40 am

Dengor wrote:... The public was mostly supportive and I cannot remember opposition due to the cost of advertising, changing signs, timetables and maps, or potential confusion for the general public.

Now there is discussion of renaming 30th St Station for Cong. Gray. He had a much stronger connection to the train station, because he was a Philadelphia resident and he probably used it for some travels. Also, he led the fight to restore it to the magnificent building we enjoy today. So this seems like a good fit.

What is different this time to trigger all the vicious opposition to this rename? Why this time all the concern about cost and how “bad” it is to name something after a politician? Why was this not an issue when renaming an airport after a different politician?

I guess this is something to think about.

A) this is 30th St Station not because some popular politician decided to make it so but because locals took to the name
b) there was no popular support to rename the station,previous attempts failed which was why the criminal who passed the legislation snuck it through.
c) Gray resigned amidst scandal
d) nobody remembers him nor was he particularly attached to the station. the building is being renovated today again. should we rename it for them? it's not like bill gray used his own money nor was the renovation even complete.
e) millions of people use it for some travel, so what?
f)no doubt the race card will be played to push through an unpopular renaming
g) Reagan is in DC, this is Philadelphia. we have a sense of place and history. Bill Gray was a very small part of that and also linked to our long history of corrupt politicians.
h) Casey is from scranton and a do nothing politician
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Re: Amtrak to re-name 30th St Station

Postby Suburban Station » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:12 am

names often change when naming rights are sold, that would be equally unpopular here but more understandable if it was raising money to pay for renovations. there is a key difference between a train station and navy ships, stations are public assets in the sense that they are not only owned by the public but used by the public. as such they should be named for the public not by and for corrupt politicians with no public input. this station in particular has always been 30th st station even if the PRR itself had named it Penn station
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Re: Amtrak to re-name 30th St Station

Postby ExCon90 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:27 pm

Actually, the PRR was the first, or among the first, to use the designation 30th St. I think that because their flagship station in Philadelphia at the time was Broad Street Station there would have been endless confusion at having Broad Street Station and Penn Station in the same city, with people constantly going to the wrong one. The station appeared in the timetable very early as "Pennsylvania Station (30th Street)" and was promptly shortened to 30th Street in everyday usage.
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Re: Amtrak to re-name 30th St Station

Postby Ridgefielder » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:51 am

The City of New York changed the name of 6th Avenue to Avenue of the Americas in 1945. After 72 years people still call it 6th Avenue. Same thing is likely to happen with 30th Street Station.
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Re: Amtrak to re-name 30th St Station

Postby JamesRR » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:44 pm

You're right. But 6 Avenue was reinstated as a co-name, sometime in the 80s I think. It has both street signs. And why? Because people refused to use the longer name.

Same is true for Newark Liberty, RFK Bridge, etc, etc.
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Re: Amtrak to re-name 30th St Station

Postby ExCon90 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:19 pm

For that matter, I don't think NYCTA ever featured an Avenue of the Americas subway.
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Re: Amtrak to re-name 30th St Station

Postby Jeff Smith » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:03 pm

Gentle nudge: let's keep this on 30th. Some of the dissertations on Naval names were, um, a little long? :P :wink:
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