How much new service is coming? And how?

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, gprimr1, Amtrak67 of America, Tadman

Re: How much new service is coming? And how?

Postby electricron » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:38 pm

Senator Byrd was working to get more pork for his home state, his job.
If the Senators from Pennsylvania were terrible at taking the bacon home, don’t blame Byrd.

Byrd used the poor economic conditions of the Applachian Mountains area to get more federal economic funding help for his state just like Representatives today do so for the inner cities all across the nation. It seems like not helping the poorest of the poor is not well received by most of the bueaurcrats in D.C.

The Broadway Limited was cut decades ago. Pennsylvania has other trains, it’s not like they have none at all. Philadelphia sees more Amtrak trains than L.A. , D.C., Chicago, or Boston. The only city Amtrak serves with more trains than Philadelphia is New York.
Philadelphia sees every NEC Regional Train including those extended to Virginia and Springfield, every Acela train, every Keystone train, every Silver Service LD trains, Crescent and Cardinal LD trains, and every Carolinian and Palmetto trains. There must be more than an Amtrak train every half hour during daylight every day.

Yet here you are complaining about how poorly Amtrak services Philadelphia. What a shame it’s just Amtrak’s second busiest city. How much service do you need?

Your attitude that big cities deserve more and more and more is exactly why small states like Delaware and Rhode Island fought so hard for the Great Compromise during the Constutution Convention way back then over 200 years ago.
electricron
 
Posts: 3903
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:35 pm

Re: How much new service is coming? And how?

Postby Noel Weaver » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:20 pm

electricron wrote:Senator Byrd was working to get more pork for his home state, his job.
If the Senators from Pennsylvania were terrible at taking the bacon home, don’t blame Byrd.

Byrd used the poor economic conditions of the Applachian Mountains area to get more federal economic funding help for his state just like Representatives today do so for the inner cities all across the nation. It seems like not helping the poorest of the poor is not well received by most of the bueaurcrats in D.C.

The Broadway Limited was cut decades ago. Pennsylvania has other trains, it’s not like they have none at all. Philadelphia sees more Amtrak trains than L.A. , D.C., Chicago, or Boston. The only city Amtrak serves with more trains than Philadelphia is New York.
Philadelphia sees every NEC Regional Train including those extended to Virginia and Springfield, every Acela train, every Keystone train, every Silver Service LD trains, Crescent and Cardinal LD trains, and every Carolinian and Palmetto trains. There must be more than an Amtrak train every half hour during daylight every day.

Yet here you are complaining about how poorly Amtrak services Philadelphia. What a shame it’s just Amtrak’s second busiest city. How much service do you need?

Your attitude that big cities deserve more and more and more is exactly why small states like Delaware and Rhode Island fought so hard for the Great Compromise during the Constutution Convention way back then over 200 years ago.


I couldn't have said this better. Of course I totally agree.
Noel Weaver
Noel Weaver
 
Posts: 9362
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Pompano Beach, Florida

Re: How much new service is coming? And how?

Postby bdawe » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:35 pm

You look at the station-ridership map, and the small stops between Spokane and St. Paul all over-perform for towns of their size. This is why, despite lacking the intermediary Denvers, Salt Lake Cities Albuquerques or Pheonixes, the Builder has the most riders out of the EB, the CZ, the SC, and the SL . If one wants to criticize the Western LDs, it's odd to pick the strongest of them
B. Dawe's map of routes and urban populations https://brendandawe.carto.com/viz/80b9d ... /embed_map NOW updated with 2016 Canadian Populations
User avatar
bdawe
 
Posts: 517
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:06 pm
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia

Re: How much new service is coming? And how?

Postby east point » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:05 pm

matthewsaggie wrote:Every time I read the term *********"" my interest in additional service in PA or revival of the BL declines that much more. .


Good point. What is ignored is the money cost. Re institution or worse a new route has very high up front costs that have been well documented on the various attempts to add service. Any dropped route savings would take 30+ years to meet capital costs of restored / new routes. Deficit hawks will scream.
east point
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:50 pm

Re: How much new service is coming? And how?

Postby Philly Amtrak Fan » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:56 am

east point wrote:
matthewsaggie wrote:Every time I read the term *********"" my interest in additional service in PA or revival of the BL declines that much more. .


Good point. What is ignored is the money cost. Re institution or worse a new route has very high up front costs that have been well documented on the various attempts to add service. Any dropped route savings would take 30+ years to meet capital costs of restored / new routes. Deficit hawks will scream.


I think it depends on your definition of "Broadway Limited". If you use the old Amtrak Broadway Limited/Three Rivers route and have to use the route west of PGH (whether it's the Ft. Wayne? route pre 1990 or Fostoria? 1990-2005) that could be hard to bring back. But to have a route using the Pennsylvanian route NYP-PGH and Capitol Limited PGH-CHI, the route is already used by Amtrak, the stations are in place, it's just a matter of getting NS's blessing (of course that's the hard part). And what should be the easiest thing of all would simply be just connecting through cars from the Pennsylvanian to the Capitol Limited as the PRIIA suggested. Sure there would still be the long 4 hour gap in PGH westbound and 2 1/2 gap eastbound but instead of getting out of the train and carrying your belongings you can stay in your train (and eastbound you can sleep). I (and I am sure the Amish from Lancaster) would welcome this upgrade, at least eastbound, if a separate train is not made. I still think a separate train is worthwhile and the Michigan detour is worth doing as I'm sure a lot of Michigan passengers also wish to travel east and can't find the graveyard shift transfer and the Thruway bus pleasant either. But the through cars is certainly an upgrade and was requested in the PRIIA in 2010 and seven years and counting. The one drawback would be the Pennsylvanian would have to wait for the Capitol Limited each day. However, there was talk at the state level about a second Pennsylvanian frequency so if there's a second Pennsylvanian then there should be less objection to the through cars (or to passengers missing the Pennsylvanian because of the Capitol Limited).
Philly Amtrak Fan
 
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:22 am
Location: Philly Area

Re: How much new service is coming? And how?

Postby electricron » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:44 am

Philly Amtrak Fan wrote:I think it depends on your definition of "Broadway Limited". If you use the old Amtrak Broadway Limited/Three Rivers route and have to use the route west of PGH (whether it's the Ft. Wayne? route pre 1990 or Fostoria? 1990-2005) that could be hard to bring back. But to have a route using the Pennsylvanian route NYP-PGH and Capitol Limited PGH-CHI, the route is already used by Amtrak, the stations are in place, it's just a matter of getting NS's blessing (of course that's the hard part). And what should be the easiest thing of all would simply be just connecting through cars from the Pennsylvanian to the Capitol Limited as the PRIIA suggested. Sure there would still be the long 4 hour gap in PGH westbound and 2 1/2 gap eastbound but instead of getting out of the train and carrying your belongings you can stay in your train (and eastbound you can sleep). I (and I am sure the Amish from Lancaster) would welcome this upgrade, at least eastbound, if a separate train is not made. I still think a separate train is worthwhile and the Michigan detour is worth doing as I'm sure a lot of Michigan passengers also wish to travel east and can't find the graveyard shift transfer and the Thruway bus pleasant either. But the through cars is certainly an upgrade and was requested in the PRIIA in 2010 and seven years and counting. The one drawback would be the Pennsylvanian would have to wait for the Capitol Limited each day. However, there was talk at the state level about a second Pennsylvanian frequency so if there's a second Pennsylvanian then there should be less objection to the through cars (or to passengers missing the Pennsylvanian because of the Capitol Limited).

You can transfer trains today in Pittsburgh, or take an entirely different route to get from eastern Pennsylvania to Chicago. Reinventing the Broadway Limited isn't needed.
You can harp and complain about it every day, every hour, every minute, every second; it's not going to change the fact that Amtrak doesn't want to reinvent it. :(
electricron
 
Posts: 3903
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:35 pm

Re: How much new service is coming? And how?

Postby mtuandrew » Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:13 pm

I predict the Capitol Limited will become a single-level train, and when that happens we will see a Broadway section just like the Boston section of the Lake Shore Limited. Not before.
User avatar
mtuandrew
 
Posts: 4089
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:59 am
Location: the Manassas Gap Independent Line

Re: How much new service is coming? And how?

Postby gokeefe » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:29 am

One item I think everyone has missed ...

Downeaster to Rockland in 2018
gokeefe
User avatar
gokeefe
 
Posts: 9825
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

Re: How much new service is coming? And how?

Postby Noel Weaver » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:48 pm

gokeefe wrote:One item I think everyone has missed ...

Downeaster to Rockland in 2018



YES!!!!
Noel Weaver
Noel Weaver
 
Posts: 9362
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Pompano Beach, Florida

Previous

Return to Amtrak

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Greg Moore, hh660 and 16 guests