Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Postby JamesRR » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:20 am

Work is, and will be, ongoing. There is much more to do. People were falsely led to believe the summer work was all that was needed - but in reality, it hasn't scratched the surface yet.
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Postby east point » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:06 pm

JamesRR wrote:Work is, and will be, ongoing. There is much more to do. People were falsely led to believe the summer work was all that was needed - but in reality, it hasn't scratched the surface yet.


Maybe in 5 years after the nest 5 years of summer disruptions ? However the quote " disruptions" certainly went well for passengers .
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Postby Backshophoss » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:16 pm

For the Track Dept and the engineering staff involved,from Portal east to Harold is one big nightmare,with a built in "time bomb"
from Sandy's hidden damage.This was all converted to Amtrak' ownership from the remains of PC when CR was created.
Throw in the "extended" construction of the ESA project to the GCT "bunker" level that uses both Amtrak and LIRR MW crews to
reconfigure Harold with the contractors on ESA .
Both Amtrak and LIRR are working to repair Sandy's damage in the East River Tubes,and keep PSCC up and running,
Amtrak can for now "Patch" repair the North(Hudson)Tubes,both need to be totally shut down for a general rebuild,due to Sandy damage
as part of the problem,the rest due to age and overuse. And the lack of an other pair of tubes to reroute traffic to!!
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Postby JoeG » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:53 pm

Last time I looked ESA was supposed to be finished in 2020. I just looked at the MTA website and see it is now supposed to be done in December 2022. I imagine there will be further delays. Presumably when this project is finally done, there will be a reduction in NYP traffic and maybe that will make repairs easier. And maybe with a big reduction in LIRR traffic some of the LIRR west side yard capacity could be used by NJT and therefore maybe one of the East River tubes at a time could be rebuilt. But of course, without Gateway, the time bomb threat continues. If the money for Gateway is somehow forthcoming, anyone have a notion of how long it would take to build the new tunnels?
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Postby Backshophoss » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:35 pm

LIRR's West Side Yard is setup only with 3rd rail,NO wire,and will likely still at max capy after ESA goes finally online.
Amtrak's Tunnel Box construction took out the running repair shop at West side yard,and is on the hook to replace that shop.
At best,when MN starts running the M-8's into Penn,they might turn at West side yard instead at the platform "in a pinch"
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Postby east point » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:09 pm

JoeG wrote:. Presumably when this project is finally done, there will be a reduction in NYP traffic and maybe that will make repairs easier. And maybe with a big reduction in LIRR traffic some of the LIRR west side yard capacity could be used by NJT and therefore maybe one of the East River tubes at a time could be rebuilt. But of course, without Gateway, the time bomb threat continues. If the money for Gateway is somehow forthcoming, anyone have a notion of how long it would take to build the new tunnels?


"Time bomb" That is a great pseudonym for the North river tunnel bores potential failure. Can we use it ? By the time ESA is finished LIRR will probably need to both NYP and NYG to handle the traffic ? West side yard has no CAT at present and is unknown if CAT would fit ? Present MNRR M-8s do not have transformers capable of using 25 hZ just 60 hZ. 25 hZ transformers are capable of using 60 hZ.

Gateway time to finish ? Based on the length of each bore and other systems work about 20 months to finish a bore. One or 2 TBMs ? who knows . If one approximately 4 months for refurbishing between bores ? Staging equipment may take a year and preliminary work such as access shafts, utility relocations, demolition of structures in way of ROW 18 months. Then track work , CAT, emergency cross passageways, signals, etc about 2 years. %-6 years. But then the problems of politics, law suits, financing, Nimbys, etc who knows. Could be total of 10 years ? ?
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Postby EuroStar » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:09 am

It appears to me that over the past month or so yard track 5A has been pulled up. The rail is gone and the ties are a disorderly mess. For the uninitiated, this was the yard track between the Empire Main and the south most of the 6 tracks that merge into the Hudson River Tunnels. I do not recall that track being ever used for mid-day storage of NJT equipment, but it was frequently used for storage of maintenance of way equipment. Does anyone know what is going on? What is the purpose of all this?
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Postby STrRedWolf » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:28 pm

EuroStar wrote:It appears to me that over the past month or so yard track 5A has been pulled up. The rail is gone and the ties are a disorderly mess. For the uninitiated, this was the yard track between the Empire Main and the south most of the 6 tracks that merge into the Hudson River Tunnels. I do not recall that track being ever used for mid-day storage of NJT equipment, but it was frequently used for storage of maintenance of way equipment. Does anyone know what is going on? What is the purpose of all this?


They may be getting all of that ready for the two new Gateway tunnels. Latest documents say that they would come in though there.
I ride the (MTA Maryland) Penn Line (between Odenton and Baltimore). I used to work for MTA Maryland's IT department, and out of professional courtesy my responses may be limited. Wikimapia is wonderful (for track/interlocking locations)!
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Postby east point » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:06 pm

STrRedWolf wrote:They may be getting all of that ready for the two new Gateway tunnels. Latest documents say that they would come in though there.


Speculation along that theme. This may be setting up the connection tracks from the new tunnels. That will require puzzle switches as well. Depending on how much the new bores will be worked on from the NYP side tracks might be added once the boxes are complete. That way rail cars for supplies and excavation of scrap or spoil to be removed. As said Pure speculation.
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Postby BandA » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:46 pm

Is the connection to the gateway tunnel already designed? I guess since it has to go through the tunnel box there is nothing to design
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Postby Backshophoss » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:23 pm

Believe there's a plan to extend the Empire's trains reach to more platform tracks at Penn,needing a few more crossovers and Double slips
Then also the tunnel box access to Penn.
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Postby EuroStar » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:44 am

A quick review of the DEIS for the tunnel reveals that track 5A is indeed to be modified and reduced in length by about 50% to make space for new switches allowing access from the new tunnels to the high numbered tracks. What does not make sense to me is why they pulled the track now. The Trump administration has not committed to funding the project and without federal money there will be no tunnel. Why pull the track now and limit the space to park MoW equipment now? What happens if the federal money never comes? Yon either spend more money to restore what was there or live with reduced flexibility to store equipment close by. Makes little sense to me. What am I missing?
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Postby gokeefe » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:03 am

There is already money committed. It's coming in small blocks.
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Postby BandA » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:04 pm

If they need to rebuild that track or adjacent tracks, they would want to do it at the same time. It may be easier to work on these storage tracks while they wait to access the switches/platform tracks on weekend, etc.
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Postby JamesRR » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:11 pm

Amtrak has announced that from January 8, 2018 thru the end of May 2018, they will be doing additional track work at Penn, including replacing tracks 15 and 18.

NJT posted their service revisions, which mostly affect a couple trains on the NEC and NJCL routes.

NJ Transit Updates
http://www.njtransit.com/sa/sa_servlet. ... iceId=2516

NJ.COM Article
http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/201 ... ation.html
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