AEM-7 status

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Re: AEM-7 status

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:28 pm

amtrakhogger wrote:IiRC, I thought the units were owned by the bank (lessor) and not Amtrak. So therefore this is a bank sale and not an Amtrak surplus sale. The best I can see for these units is scrap value.
MARC could get some to cannibalize and keep its AEM7s running for more years to come (no need to go all diesel). Other than that, not much.
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Re: AEM-7 status

Postby 8th Notch » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:57 pm

R36 Combine Coach wrote:
amtrakhogger wrote:IiRC, I thought the units were owned by the bank (lessor) and not Amtrak. So therefore this is a bank sale and not an Amtrak surplus sale. The best I can see for these units is scrap value.
MARC could get some to cannibalize and keep its AEM7s running for more years to come (no need to go all diesel). Other than that, not much.


The Marc units are not even AC for starters....
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Re: AEM-7 status

Postby ApproachMedium » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:43 am

DutchRailnut wrote:the Swedish once still have parts availability, the US units basically EMD said F***it and no they have no parts common to them.


Incorrect, there are a slew of common parts between the two units. In fact it was common that we had parts show up from the 6 axle versions that would not work for the 4 axle ones.
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Re: AEM-7 status

Postby ApproachMedium » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:45 am

mtuandrew wrote:Hry, look at this - 15 AEM-7ACs for sale: http://biggsappraisal.com/AEM7AC


The ad cracks me up. The DC units were Thyristor controlled. These are IGBT, which was mentioned later in the thing. Obviously somebody wants them if two were purchased, and these are NOT the two that went to the TTCI. The Units for sale online are owned by the bank meanwhile the two sold to the TTCI were amtrak owned outright.
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Re: AEM-7 status

Postby David Benton » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:21 am

Conceivably, the transformers and control gear could have use in an industrial application. Though that would be considered scrapping them in a railroad sense, I guess.
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Re: AEM-7 status

Postby Nasadowsk » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:28 am

David Benton wrote:Conceivably, the transformers and control gear could have use in an industrial application. Though that would be considered scrapping them in a railroad sense, I guess.


For what? The number of 25hz transformers anyone needs out there is pretty much zero off the NEC, and the control gear is nothing special either - even medium voltage VFDs are a catalog item these days. And, it's pretty much a given that the AEM-7AC's stuff doesn't talk Modbus, Profinet, Ethernet/IP, or anything else used in industry (though it's possible - but the rail industry is awful at using open standards. Maybe Canbus is used, but nobody uses that seriously in an industrial setting anyway. Maybe Sercos, but that's really for servo drives... ), so there's no way for it to talk to a control system anyway. Nor are the motor protection relays existing, etc etc etc etc.

Since more suitable equipment is quite literally a phone call away, this stuff has no use in industry...
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Re: AEM-7 status

Postby EuroStar » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:56 am

Nasadowsk wrote: The number of 25hz transformers anyone needs out there is pretty much zero off the NEC...

A 25Hz transformer will work fine at 50Hz or 60Hz, but re-purposing them is likely more expensive than buying new purpose built ones. The only buyers I can imagine for these would be in 'poor' countries with elecrification. Maybe someone in Eastern Europe could buy a few and resurrect a couple while using the rest for parts. Given the ocean shipping though, it might not be cost effective.
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Re: AEM-7 status

Postby David Benton » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:29 pm

Nasadowsk wrote:
David Benton wrote:Conceivably, the transformers and control gear could have use in an industrial application. Though that would be considered scrapping them in a railroad sense, I guess.


For what? The number of 25hz transformers anyone needs out there is pretty much zero off the NEC, and the control gear is nothing special either - even medium voltage VFDs are a catalog item these days. And, it's pretty much a given that the AEM-7AC's stuff doesn't talk Modbus, Profinet, Ethernet/IP, or anything else used in industry (though it's possible - but the rail industry is awful at using open standards. Maybe Canbus is used, but nobody uses that seriously in an industrial setting anyway. Maybe Sercos, but that's really for servo drives... ), so there's no way for it to talk to a control system anyway. Nor are the motor protection relays existing, etc etc etc etc.

Since more suitable equipment is quite literally a phone call away, this stuff has no use in industry...

As Eurostar says , the transformers can be used on normal frequencies, so there would be a lot of applications for them .
You are probably right about the control gear , in the USA at least.
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Re: AEM-7 status

Postby STrRedWolf » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:13 pm

8th Notch wrote:
R36 Combine Coach wrote:
amtrakhogger wrote:IiRC, I thought the units were owned by the bank (lessor) and not Amtrak. So therefore this is a bank sale and not an Amtrak surplus sale. The best I can see for these units is scrap value.
MARC could get some to cannibalize and keep its AEM7s running for more years to come (no need to go all diesel). Other than that, not much.


The Marc units are not even AC for starters....


The MARC units are mothballed at least.
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Re: AEM-7 status

Postby ApproachMedium » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:39 am

Nasadowsk wrote:
David Benton wrote:Conceivably, the transformers and control gear could have use in an industrial application. Though that would be considered scrapping them in a railroad sense, I guess.


For what? The number of 25hz transformers anyone needs out there is pretty much zero off the NEC, and the control gear is nothing special either - even medium voltage VFDs are a catalog item these days. And, it's pretty much a given that the AEM-7AC's stuff doesn't talk Modbus, Profinet, Ethernet/IP, or anything else used in industry (though it's possible - but the rail industry is awful at using open standards. Maybe Canbus is used, but nobody uses that seriously in an industrial setting anyway. Maybe Sercos, but that's really for servo drives... ), so there's no way for it to talk to a control system anyway. Nor are the motor protection relays existing, etc etc etc etc.

Since more suitable equipment is quite literally a phone call away, this stuff has no use in industry...



AEM-7 transformers run on both freqencies they always have and always will. The control gear in the AC remans is all shared with the Alstom PL42AC and maybe some other overseas stuff. The power modules were only used by those two machines stateside, anything else overseats using the ONYX system i do not know of but I am sure there are. The switchgear contactors etc in the units were all standard Alstom parts that were used in various other locos. The stuff is still in production so availability on the new/rebuilt direct from alstom market is there and no need for surplus from scrapped units.

As far as the DC units go, there isnt a market for used thyristors. The HEP contactor is worth about $1500 bucks on the used market and maybe some other little doodads in there might be worth a little on a used market but not worth scrapping the whole engine over. The DC transformers are completely useless as they were 1960s tech filled with aluminum so nothing of value for scrap.
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Re: AEM-7 status

Postby liftedjeep » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:33 pm

-Earlier this week (11/16) a Facebook photo surfaced showing AEM-7s #944 & #914 coupled together (along with an HHP-8) outside of the Wilmington shops. A caption along with the photo read something along the lines of the two AEM-7s being readied for a "short future at the Wilmington Shop".
I have no idea or any further info as to what that post meant. A possibility that they may have been picked up by another rail agency, or an even smaller possibility that Amtrak could use them on an upcoming Holiday Extra next Sunday the 26th.

Let the speculation begin.........
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Re: AEM-7 status

Postby hs3730 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:41 pm

Shore line east should buy them. They've run their P40s into the ground, and electric engines seem like they'd be less maintenance intensive (I mean, even SEPTA can keep 'em going).
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Re: AEM-7 status

Postby jp1822 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:12 pm

What was the reason as to why the AEM7's weren't saved or mothballed to become NPCU's or even cabbages? There was talk at first for them to be de-motorized but then sort of phased out. With aging Metroliner Cab Cars, Springfield Shuttle Service..... The new single level Midwest and California cars will likely have their own cab cars built with the order.....
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Re: AEM-7 status

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:16 am

jp1822 wrote:What was the reason as to why the AEM7's weren't saved or mothballed to become NPCU's or even cabbages? There was talk at first for them to be de-motorized but then sort of phased out. With aging Metroliner Cab Cars, Springfield Shuttle Service..... The new single level Midwest and California cars will likely have their own cab cars built with the order.....
And the Amfleet replacement corridor cars will also have a cab variant for push-pull as well.

hs3730 wrote:Shore line east should buy them. They've run their P40s into the ground, and electric engines seem like they'd be less maintenance intensive (I mean, even SEPTA can keep 'em going).
SLE is going all-electric when diesels are redeployed to ConnDOT Springfield service.
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Re: AEM-7 status

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:54 am

R36 Combine Coach wrote:
jp1822 wrote:What was the reason as to why the AEM7's weren't saved or mothballed to become NPCU's or even cabbages? There was talk at first for them to be de-motorized but then sort of phased out. With aging Metroliner Cab Cars, Springfield Shuttle Service..... The new single level Midwest and California cars will likely have their own cab cars built with the order.....
And the Amfleet replacement corridor cars will also have a cab variant for push-pull as well.

hs3730 wrote:Shore line east should buy them. They've run their P40s into the ground, and electric engines seem like they'd be less maintenance intensive (I mean, even SEPTA can keep 'em going).
SLE is going all-electric when diesels are redeployed to ConnDOT Springfield service.


Not to mention the new cab cars are going to be cab-coach-baggage cars rendering all remaining non-Cascades cabbages completely obsolete.

And CDOT's P40 fleet is being rebuilt, along with their GP40-2H fleet. And 60 more M8's (with options for +34 more on top) are being ordered to arrive in 2 years to make sure those electric replacements have plenty of reserves.
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