P32AC-DM Dual-Mode Genesis Discussion (Empire Service)

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, gprimr1, Amtrak67 of America, Tadman

Re: The Future of Empire Corridor Dual Modes

Postby chuchubob » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:33 pm

chuchubob
 
Posts: 6029
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:55 pm
Location: South Jersey

Re: The Future of Empire Corridor Dual Modes

Postby DURR5017116 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:06 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:first the charger complies with all PRII requirements and is 10 000 lbs lighter than the F125.
second the Charger is lower than the F125 which with a height of 14.7 exceeds restrictions in NYP and other eastern parts.
Siemens seems more adapt to make changes for customer.
the EMD F125 is not even certify to test yet by some FRA rule problems.
and as far as I know LIRR and Amtrak and Metro north have been in serious talks with Siemens.

http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Documents ... 1-6-15.pdf


The reason I said what I did is based on weight. Siemens estimate for a Charger based dual mode is 291,000 LBS while EMDs estimate for an F125 dual mode is 282,000 lbs. It says later on that NYS wants a loco at or around 286,000 lbs.
DURR5017116
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:17 pm

Re: The Future of Empire Corridor Dual Modes

Postby DURR5017116 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:12 pm

mtuandrew wrote:AMTK822401: are we talking overhaul, remanufacture, or full update to modern electronics, alternator, etc? I'm sure NS would be interested in that contract, given what they are doing with their AC44C6Ms of similar Dash-9 vintage.


The reason I say this (and unofficially) is because know people who work in Rensselaer where the P32s are based. I'm not quoting them or giving names. One of them has talked repeatedly about the need for a full rebuild. The has has made a comment to another engineer where he basically says the state has said there is no money for new dual modes and there is nothing planned for the P32s until 2020.
DURR5017116
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:17 pm

Re: The Future of Empire Corridor Dual Modes

Postby Backshophoss » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:25 pm

Given that 2 P32's have cycled to Beech for repainting,it might be time to cycle the P32's to Beech for rebuilding,
or to GE at Erie Pa to keep the transit time to/from the shop down.
Both NY and Ct have cycled their P32's to GE Erie for rebuilding already.
Backshophoss
 
Posts: 5605
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: The Future of Empire Corridor Dual Modes

Postby Ridgefielder » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:38 am

Nasadowsk wrote:
F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:
then consider that LIRR has 23 straight diesels to replace + cushion, and would ideally like to have something with major parts commonality--if not total modularity--to their duals.


The LIRR should consider that in this day and age, there's zero reason to be operating diesels on LI, for anything other than towing dead MUs around. Or, and the one or two freights a day the NY&A runs

I think the people of Oyster Bay, Glen Cove, Port Jefferson, Smithtown, Riverhead and Bayshore would disagree with you strenuously on that. Never mind the Hamptons.

There's a lot of LIRR territory past the end of electrification at Huntington, Ronkonkoma and Babylon. If the cost of a DM is $1X and the cost of a straight diesel is $0.75X, it makes sense for them to at least consider it.
Ridgefielder
 
Posts: 2524
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: Harlem Division MP 15

Re: The Future of Empire Corridor Dual Modes

Postby Nasadowsk » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:51 pm

Ridgefielder wrote:I think the people of Oyster Bay, Glen Cove, Port Jefferson, Smithtown, Riverhead and Bayshore would disagree with you strenuously on that.


I grew up on the Oyster Bay line. I remember when the DM-30s were ordered. LIRR promised us service "just like an electric". That's not my words, that's the LIRR's spokeperson's words.

Well, guess what? 18 years later, we're still changing at Jamacia. Trains are still slow as hell, infrequent, noisy, smokey, and just as crappy as it was when the GP-38-2s struggled to drag a few rotting P-72/75 cars in and out of Glen Street.

Trust me, most of the area dreams of the day when the LIRR finally breaks down and puts in third rail on the line.

Port Jeff, they want it even more so - that line needed electrification 20 years ago.

For the few Hamptonites too poor to fly out and too special for Hampton Jittney, just keep 2 or 3 DM sets in reserve for the summer.

There is zero reason the LIRR should be running diesel services today. The new "diesel fleet" should be an add-on order of M-9s...
Nasadowsk
 
Posts: 3904
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:45 pm

Re: The Future of Empire Corridor Dual Modes

Postby Ridgefielder » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:18 am

Nasadowsk wrote:
Ridgefielder wrote:I think the people of Oyster Bay, Glen Cove, Port Jefferson, Smithtown, Riverhead and Bayshore would disagree with you strenuously on that.


I grew up on the Oyster Bay line. I remember when the DM-30s were ordered. LIRR promised us service "just like an electric". That's not my words, that's the LIRR's spokeperson's words.

Well, guess what? 18 years later, we're still changing at Jamacia. Trains are still slow as hell, infrequent, noisy, smokey, and just as crappy as it was when the GP-38-2s struggled to drag a few rotting P-72/75 cars in and out of Glen Street.

Trust me, most of the area dreams of the day when the LIRR finally breaks down and puts in third rail on the line.

Port Jeff, they want it even more so - that line needed electrification 20 years ago.

For the few Hamptonites too poor to fly out and too special for Hampton Jittney, just keep 2 or 3 DM sets in reserve for the summer.

There is zero reason the LIRR should be running diesel services today. The new "diesel fleet" should be an add-on order of M-9s...

I suspect it's not a question of the LIRR not wanting to electrify Oyster Bay and Port Jeff, but a question of the LIRR not having the extra the multi-hundreds-of-millions-of-$ they need to do it.
Ridgefielder
 
Posts: 2524
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: Harlem Division MP 15

Re: P32AC-DM Dual-Mode Genesis Discussion (Empire Service)

Postby Jeff Smith » Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:06 pm

Not getting replaced anytime soon: TimesUnion.com

Amtrak's aging fleet lacks funding from the state

When Gov. Andrew Cuomo last week told The New York Times that Penn Station was a "debacle," and that he wished the state controlled it, rail advocates may have had mixed feelings.

While derailments have caused headaches for hundreds of thousands of commuters, Amtrak passengers elsewhere in the state haven't been spared.

Top state transportation officials in the Cuomo administration failed to provide funds in this year's budget to replace the aging locomotives, even as the existing fleet is breaking down more frequently, and experts in the DOT have recommended replacement.


I hear in the Penn Trackwork thread that some trains are entering Penn in push/pull mode. Are they using the P32's for this? Here's the thread:

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=165244
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator
Jeff Smith
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7848
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:28 am
Location: MP 67.2 Georgia Southern Railway

Re: P32AC-DM Dual-Mode Genesis Discussion (Empire Service)

Postby mtuandrew » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:31 pm

This article confused me a bit. Is Amtrak going to purchase P32 replacements with its own money in parallel with a MTA/CDOT order, is Amtrak going to try to shake down NYS for some funding a la our favorite {redacted} trainset, or is it sloughing off ownership to NYS altogether?
User avatar
mtuandrew
 
Posts: 5129
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:59 am
Location: the Manassas Gap Independent Line

Re: P32AC-DM Dual-Mode Genesis Discussion (Empire Service)

Postby hs3730 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:38 pm

The P32AC-DMs spend 90% of their time in NYS, and I recall the idea was for NYS to pay for the replacements. Perhaps Vermont can chip in for one of the two needed for the Ethan Allen, as that is the only train past ALB that usually does not get an engine change. The only long distance train that needs them is the Lake Shore Ltd, but maybe Amtrak can be convinced to buy one or two under that premise. The other named trains which use them are already established to be NYS trains: The Adirondack is NYS supported, and the Maple Leaf is just an Empire Corridor train that gets handed off to VIA at the border.

FWIW NYS is paying for the badly needed repainting on the current ones (701, 704, 707, 710 so far? Following the pattern is 713 next?). This could be a harbinger of the replacements.
hs3730
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:30 pm
Location: Albany NY

Re: P32AC-DM Dual-Mode Genesis Discussion (Empire Service)

Postby Jeff Smith » Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:43 pm

As you note, they get switched out at ALB, so I doubt they're making the trip to Chicago on the LSL. AFAIK, they've never been overhauled. If some of the trains switch to GCT temporarily to alleviate stress on NYP, they could potentially lease a couple MNRR units, which have had their mid-life rebuild. Everything I read points to the unreliability of the Amtrak P32's...
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator
Jeff Smith
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7848
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:28 am
Location: MP 67.2 Georgia Southern Railway

Re: P32AC-DM Dual-Mode Genesis Discussion (Empire Service)

Postby DutchRailnut » Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:37 pm

Due to lack of parts even MN has no spares and is not in position to lend any units.
as for overhaul yes Amtrak has overhauled a few units inhouse.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.
User avatar
DutchRailnut
 
Posts: 21842
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: released from Stalag 13

Re: P32AC-DM Dual-Mode Genesis Discussion (Empire Service)

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:41 pm

hs3730 wrote:Perhaps Vermont can chip in for one of the two needed for the Ethan Allen, as that is the only train past ALB that usually does not get an engine change.


VTrans is indeed in with NY on this duals order for the Ethan Allen, per the old preliminary Request For Information paperwork of several years ago. IIRC, they pay in a % ownership for New York's fleet covering the Ethan Allen equipment requirements but don't get any vote in the decision-making process.
F-line to Dudley via Park
 
Posts: 7355
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:26 pm
Location: North Cambridge

Re: P32AC-DM Dual-Mode Genesis Discussion (Empire Service)

Postby ThirdRail7 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:56 pm

Jeff Smith wrote:I hear in the Penn Trackwork thread that some trains are entering Penn in push/pull mode. Are they using the P32's for this? Here's the thread:

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=165244


Yes. There is a P32 on each end. They are MU-d through the train. So, that is why I amended my post to PULL-PULL in the same thread. Even if the trailing unit is dead in tow, it still doesn't not meet the definition of a push-pull train since there is a locomotive on each end.

hs3730 wrote:The P32AC-DMs spend 90% of their time in NYS, and I recall the idea was for NYS to pay for the replacements. Perhaps Vermont can chip in for one of the two needed for the Ethan Allen, as that is the only train past ALB that usually does not get an engine change. The only long distance train that needs them is the Lake Shore Ltd, but maybe Amtrak can be convinced to buy one or two under that premise. The other named trains which use them are already established to be NYS trains: The Adirondack is NYS supported, and the Maple Leaf is just an Empire Corridor train that gets handed off to VIA at the border.



Indeed but the Maple Leaf (63/64) also change engines at ALB...just as the Lake Shore Limited does. If this drags on and they need to turn more trains in the station, they could change a few more trains at ALB and free up a few more P-32s.
I want my road foreman!
ThirdRail7
 
Posts: 4040
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:07 pm

Re: P32AC-DM Dual-Mode Genesis Discussion (Empire Service)

Postby Chrisgr » Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:57 pm

711 can be added to being repainted.
Chrisgr
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:33 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Amtrak

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jonnhrr, theseaandalifesaver and 12 guests