Siemens Charger Locomotives

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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby Backshophoss » Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:54 am

In reference to the Siemens Desiros on the Sprinter service,recall they had a brake issue along with spare
parts problems.They were OOS for awhile untill a fix was found.
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby ARBKAL » Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:55 pm

CHTT1 wrote:Ok, I didn't know that. We'll see how these work out in commuter service. I suppose they could be modified for intercity service. The comment came out of theblue in a topic devoted to the Siemens locomotives.


Siemens does in fact make a high-speed DMU used in Germany for ICE service. They have a maximum speed of 125 mph.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICE_TD
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby Fan Railer » Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:35 pm

Spec sheet released in conjunction with the All Aboard Florida purchase announcement:
http://preview.thenewsmarket.com/Previe ... 345225.pdf
Alternate link:
http://www.allaboardflorida.com/files/a ... eet-v2.pdf
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby Nasadowsk » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:33 pm

I'm guessing that 50Hz is the inverter frequency @ 125mph. Interesting, but I guess not a huge surprise being a European unit (effectively).
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby gokeefe » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:56 am

Fan Railer wrote:Spec sheet released in conjunction with the All Aboard Florida purchase announcement:
http://preview.thenewsmarket.com/Previe ... 345225.pdf
Alternate link:
http://www.allaboardflorida.com/files/a ... eet-v2.pdf


Mark the date.... 47 years ago the ATSF bought their final order of passenger locomotives designated for scheduled service and to operated "for their own account."

Yesterday was a major milestone in the transformation of U.S. passenger rail.
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby Fan Railer » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:01 pm

Nasadowsk wrote:I'm guessing that 50Hz is the inverter frequency @ 125mph. Interesting, but I guess not a huge surprise being a European unit (effectively).

I would disagree. AC voltages tend to be higher than DC voltages. From what I gather elsewhere, IGBT traction inverter voltages tend to be in the range of 2400V. I would guess the 1080 volt rating @ 50hZ is the rectifier rating. The 50hZ rating itself would be from the main alternator.
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby slchub » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:06 pm

Anybody who spends 8-10 hours on the P42's will gladly take a new replacement. These units are getting old and tired and have seen better days. Let's hope that the Carrier's will "consult" with the engineers who spend time behind the throttle what their preferences are in regards to a control stand, seats, etc. And let's hope that the next motors will not draw in air from the lavatory as the current P42's do.
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby Fan Railer » Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:18 pm

slchub wrote:Anybody who spends 8-10 hours on the P42's will gladly take a new replacement. These units are getting old and tired and have seen better days. Let's hope that the Carrier's will "consult" with the engineers who spend time behind the throttle what their preferences are in regards to a control stand, seats, etc. And let's hope that the next motors will not draw in air from the lavatory as the current P42's do.

I'm not sure how much variation the cabs will have, but from the spec sheet, it seems that the cab layout will share a common layout to the cab layout that is currently in the ACS-64.
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby ApproachMedium » Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:03 am

Fan Railer wrote:
Nasadowsk wrote:I'm guessing that 50Hz is the inverter frequency @ 125mph. Interesting, but I guess not a huge surprise being a European unit (effectively).

I would disagree. AC voltages tend to be higher than DC voltages. From what I gather elsewhere, IGBT traction inverter voltages tend to be in the range of 2400V. I would guess the 1080 volt rating @ 50hZ is the rectifier rating. The 50hZ rating itself would be from the main alternator.


50 cycles is just the frequency of the AC wave that comes off the device. The difference between 50 and 60 is minimal but its enough that the locomotive must be built to work on both or one or the other usually. ALP 46 and ACS-64 work on both. The DC link voltage is what is made by the converter system off the transformer. On an HHP-8 its 2750VDC same with the Acela HST. The AEM-7 HEP systems DC link is only 1,100VDC (No DC link for traction, since they are DC propulsion) The AEM-7 AC I believe runs a DC link at about 1,800VDC. All 5 inverter chains feed off this common DC link to provide 3 phase AC for traction and Aux power/HEP. Voltage of the AC components is all 480VAC.

With modern diesel locomotives instead of a transformer and a single phase converter they will have a 3 phase converter and a 3 phase alternator coupled to the crankshaft of the engine. The PL42AC and the P32/40/42/32ACDM all work this way. The 3 phases go to the converter and are then made in to a stable DC voltage On AC propulsion there is a DC link and inverter chains. The DC propulsion its divided up electrically and fed to the traction motors via excitation field and armature circuits.

The electrical makeup of the propulsion on the NJT PL42AC is exactly the same as the AEM-7 AC except with the difference noted in the above paragraph. Same computers, same power modules, same principals.
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby Matt Johnson » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:08 am

So, 135 tons makes 'em a little heavier than the Genesis actually, but still lighter than the 148 ton MPI behemoth MP36/MP40 locomotives. Hopefully high speed tracking will be at least as good as with the current GE locomotives.
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby David Benton » Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:45 am

frequency off a generator would be the rpm of the ergine times the number of pairs of poles in the alternator divided by 60.
a common speed in small generators is 3000 rpm for 50 hz, 3300rpm for 60 hz.actually it may be 3300 and3600 , brains a bit fuzzy at the moment.
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby ApproachMedium » Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:43 pm

David Benton wrote:frequency off a generator would be the rpm of the ergine times the number of pairs of poles in the alternator divided by 60.
a common speed in small generators is 3000 rpm for 50 hz, 3300rpm for 60 hz.actually it may be 3300 and3600 , brains a bit fuzzy at the moment.


A locomotive engine spins at various speeds from 200RPM up to 900RPM for EMD 2 stroke and 1,200 for GE 4 strokes. The little MPI GP15s at amtrak spin up to 1,800RPM. They all make 3 phase 60 cycle 480VAC.
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby DutchRailnut » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:06 pm

Actually a GE will run at 1047 rpm max in non HEP mode or on P32acdm's in run 8 a GE providing HEP (other than P32acdm) will run a steady 900 RPM.
that is reason a P42 will only deliver 3750 hp in HEP mode and 4200 hp in non-HEP mode.
the P32acm is a different beast as HEP does not feed directly of Generator but of a inverter, so engine speed is not a requirement for frequency.

the F40ph ran at 900 rpm in HEP mode (and 600 rpm in HEP non traction yard power mode), engine speed only varied with throttle settings if engine was NOT delivering HEP.
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby David Benton » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:29 pm

ApproachMedium wrote:
David Benton wrote:frequency off a generator would be the rpm of the ergine times the number of pairs of poles in the alternator divided by 60.
a common speed in small generators is 3000 rpm for 50 hz, 3300rpm for 60 hz.actually it may be 3300 and3600 , brains a bit fuzzy at the moment.


A locomotive engine spins at various speeds from 200RPM up to 900RPM for EMD 2 stroke and 1,200 for GE 4 strokes. The little MPI GP15s at amtrak spin up to 1,800RPM. They all make 3 phase 60 cycle 480VAC.

that must come from an inverter then .
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby ApproachMedium » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:07 pm

David Benton wrote:
ApproachMedium wrote:
David Benton wrote:frequency off a generator would be the rpm of the ergine times the number of pairs of poles in the alternator divided by 60.
a common speed in small generators is 3000 rpm for 50 hz, 3300rpm for 60 hz.actually it may be 3300 and3600 , brains a bit fuzzy at the moment.


A locomotive engine spins at various speeds from 200RPM up to 900RPM for EMD 2 stroke and 1,200 for GE 4 strokes. The little MPI GP15s at amtrak spin up to 1,800RPM. They all make 3 phase 60 cycle 480VAC.

that must come from an inverter then .


Yea if there is an AC alternator, there is a converter. Converters make AC to DC. DC to AC is an inverter. The old F40s had to keep high RPMs to keep the frequency for the way the HEP 3 phase worked, but for traction its done differently. The same principals now apply with newer locos like the GP15, PL42AC, P32ACDM and the MPI MPXpress series. The engine can vary RPM while feeding a single 3 phase alternator that runs to a converter which keeps a DC link charged.
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