Wisconsin Talgos Disposition - MI and now Pacific Surfliner

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, gprimr1, Amtrak67 of America, Tadman

Re: Wisconsin Talgos Disposition - MI and now Pacific Surfli

Postby electricron » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:43 pm

east point wrote:Oregon could probably have Amtrak disconnect the appropriate car ( if they exist ) place them on flat cars and send them to Seattle to replace any damaged ?

There's really no need to do that, there were "spare" Talgo cars already ready for substitution in the area.
Just like the Wisconsin's two train sets had three spare cars; cab-baggage, end coach, and Bistro.

How many spare cars are remaining in Seattle I have no clue. But there should be some.
electricron
 
Posts: 4194
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:35 pm

Re: Wisconsin Talgos Disposition - MI and now Pacific Surfli

Postby bostontrainguy » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:11 pm

Trains Magazine is saying:

The manufacturing operation in Milwaukee was shuttered after four Talgo trainsets were completed. Two for Oregon were later delivered for Amtrak’s Cascades service. The two Wisconsin Series 8 trainsets are stored at Amtrak’s Beech Grove (Ind.) maintenance base, awaiting disposition, most likely to California for Los Angeles-San Diego service if a plan by the LOSSAN Rail Corridor Agency comes to fruition.
bostontrainguy
 
Posts: 1209
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:14 am

Re: Wisconsin Talgos Disposition - MI and now Pacific Surfli

Postby gokeefe » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:00 pm

Makes perfect sense and would make good use of the trains' top speeds and tilting capability.
gokeefe
User avatar
gokeefe
 
Posts: 10409
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

Re: Wisconsin Talgos Disposition - MI and now Pacific Surfli

Postby bostontrainguy » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:58 am

Now are they going to Washington/Oregon?

Hard to believe that Wikipedia is already updated:
The Series VI trainset built to operate between Las Vegas and Los Angeles was renamed the Mount Adams when it was purchased by the state of Washington. This trainset was subsequently destroyed in the December 18, 2017, derailment on the Point Defiance Cutoff.
Last edited by bostontrainguy on Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
bostontrainguy
 
Posts: 1209
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:14 am

Re: Wisconsin Talgos Disposition - MI and now Pacific Surfli

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:05 am

bostontrainguy wrote:Now are they going to Washington/Oregon?


That would've been the most logical plan all along, since WSDOT already has to borrow Superliner sets to plug the expanded schedule from too few Talgo sets. Now it's probably a necessity.
F-line to Dudley via Park
 
Posts: 7355
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:26 pm
Location: North Cambridge

Re: Wisconsin Talgos Disposition - MI and now Pacific Surfli

Postby gokeefe » Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:11 pm

bostontrainguy wrote:Now are they going to Washington/Oregon?


I would imagine so. At least on a temporary basis. Hopefully the brand new Charger is salvageable (seems unlikely).
gokeefe
User avatar
gokeefe
 
Posts: 10409
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

Re: Wisconsin Talgos Disposition - MI and now Pacific Surfli

Postby Leo_Ames » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:57 pm

Most of the cars don't look too bad (And the Genesis on the rear looks to have escaped unscathed). Pure railfan speculation here, but I wouldn't be surprised if just the lead locomotive and one car or so of the train were complete write-offs.

I suspect another railfan might be a bit hasty in editing Wikipedia there. Then again, maybe someone in the know that's familiar with the engineering and the forces that must've been sent through the train here, is behind that edit knowing that all but the rear GE probably are goners.

But I rather doubt such an individual is busying himself with a Wikipedia edit just hours after the derailment...
Leo_Ames
 
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:52 pm

Re: Wisconsin Talgos Disposition - MI and now Pacific Surfli

Postby gokeefe » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:59 am

Leo_Ames wrote:Most of the cars don't look too bad (And the Genesis on the rear looks to have escaped unscathed).


I believe the Talgo cars are monocque or "unibody" construction. The shell itself is the frame. Consequently any warping of the shell compromises the total integrity of the car. I will not be surprised at all if the entire trainset is a total loss. I agree that the P42 seems likely to be fine.

Not so much for the families of the injured and the dead. My thoughts are with all of them, the crew and the first responders.
gokeefe
User avatar
gokeefe
 
Posts: 10409
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

Re: Wisconsin Talgos Disposition - MI and now Pacific Surfli

Postby ziggyzack1234 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:24 am

The Charger is probably a loss, but the P42 looks fine. A checkup and new paint (or even just a good wash) will bring that back to service standard.

As for the trainset, I can only see the car riding in front of the P42 being easily repairable.
ziggyzack1234
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:54 pm

Re: Wisconsin Talgos Disposition - MI and now Pacific Surfli

Postby EuroStar » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:02 am

I think WSDOT should consider themselves lucky if two of the cars are salvegable. The one next to the trailing engine has the best chances, but most of the rest are definitely heading to the scrap pile after sitting on some lot for a decade or so until all lawsuits are settled.
EuroStar
 
Posts: 506
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:26 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere

Re: Wisconsin Talgos Disposition - MI and now Pacific Surfli

Postby Jehochman » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:20 am

Hard to believe that Wikipedia is already updated:
The Series VI trainset built to operate between Las Vegas and Los Angeles was renamed the Mount Adams when it was purchased by the state of Washington. This trainset was subsequently destroyed in the December 18, 2017, derailment on the Point Defiance Cutoff.


I'm a Wikipedia administrator, and I'm not surprised at all. There are quite a few railfans editing Wikipedia. For topics that have followings, such as trains, aviation, storms, mycology, sports, astronomy, etc, articles are updated very rapidly.

This particular update was made by an anonymous editor, and there is no separate reference. I would not read any particular meaning into it beyond that of a layperson summarizing what's in the news.
Jehochman
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:39 pm
Location: Connecticut

Re: Wisconsin Talgos Disposition - MI and now Pacific Surfli

Postby Matt Johnson » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:11 pm

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:
bostontrainguy wrote:Now are they going to Washington/Oregon?


That would've been the most logical plan all along, since WSDOT already has to borrow Superliner sets to plug the expanded schedule from too few Talgo sets. Now it's probably a necessity.


I would agree. I wonder if the accident has any impact on Talgo's marketing of new trains beyond the already built sets though. I like the Talgo equipment, but the cars always seemed closer to light rail equipment than heavy rail. Running alongside freight and through grade crossings at speed aboard a Talgo would make me a little more nervous than if it were on a modern grade separated right of way. But of course, the Talgos are specifically designed to speed up older curvy routes.

The cars seem to have held up well given the severity of the accident on Monday, but I do wonder about the crash dynamics of the Talgo sets. In higher speed incidents they seem to come apart and scatter, and I wonder if the short length with a single wheelset between cars is a factor there. The TGV articulation has been cited as an advantage in keeping a trainset in line during a derailment, but that's with two cars sharing a conventional truck. In this case, the cars don't share a truck but rather ride on a light single shared wheelset between coaches.
User avatar
Matt Johnson
 
Posts: 4027
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:57 pm
Location: Hazlet, NJ

Re: Wisconsin Talgos Disposition - MI and now Pacific Surfli

Postby gokeefe » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:46 pm

Note that there was a car that dangled over the interstate and yet the trainset still held together. A significant portion of the train tried to stay on the tracks and not follow the lead engine into the trees. I completely agree that given the severity the cars seemed to have performed remarkably well. However the NTSB may very well have a different opinion once the full investigation is complete. There is at least one car that sustained some significant crush damage. Whether or not that was to have been expected given the forces involved is unknown.
gokeefe
User avatar
gokeefe
 
Posts: 10409
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

Re: Wisconsin Talgos Disposition - MI and now Pacific Surfli

Postby NorthWest » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:08 pm

The biggest replacement issue is coaches. There were originally 6 Talgo VII sets constructed for North American usage, but one was split for the purpose of expanding the others. There is still a spare bistro, baggage, HEP and I think lounge car stored in Seattle, which means that with new coaches the old set could be rebuilt again.
User avatar
NorthWest
 
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:54 pm

Re: Wisconsin Talgos Disposition - MI and now Pacific Surfli

Postby wigwagfan » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:10 pm

electricron wrote:
east point wrote:Oregon could probably have Amtrak disconnect the appropriate car ( if they exist ) place them on flat cars and send them to Seattle to replace any damaged ?

There's really no need to do that, there were "spare" Talgo cars already ready for substitution in the area.
Just like the Wisconsin's two train sets had three spare cars; cab-baggage, end coach, and Bistro.

How many spare cars are remaining in Seattle I have no clue. But there should be some.


No, there was not sufficient spare Talgo cars. The train sat out of service at King Street Station for several months; it has since been trucked to Wisconsin for possible repairs.

Amtrak is already substituting a Seattle-Vancouver train with Superliner equipment.

It appears Portland-Eugene is now being subbed with two Horizon coaches (with no cafe or baggage car service).

The trainset that was damaged on Monday...some of the pictures show the cars are literally ripped apart. There might be a couple cars that might be able to be salvaged but several of the cars are too far gone, missing sides/roofs, massive damage to the articulation joint, etc.
User avatar
wigwagfan
 
Posts: 3290
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:57 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

PreviousNext

Return to Amtrak

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: east point, MACTRAXX, swist and 14 guests

cron