Viewliner II Delivery/Production

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CAF Viewliners: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby Pacific 2-3-1 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:21 pm

There has been comment in the past about different foreign railway car manufacturers doing just the final assembly in the United States (including Bombardier, of La Pocatiere, Quebec).

Does the Amtrak press release RE the new "Viewliner" type cars specifically state that the stainless steel carbody shells are to fabricated by CAF in this country, and not Spain?

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Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby DutchRailnut » Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:45 pm

Yes CAF will produce the entire car in Elmira, including the shell.

see:
http://www.stargazette.com/article/2010 ... d-575-jobs
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Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby JoshKarpoff » Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:45 pm

I thought that there weren't any plants in the US that could fabricate full size stainless steel car bodies any more, ever since Budd closed it's last plant?
It was my understanding that they had the last full car length acid bath dip tanks in the US at their Red Lion plant.
Are the Viewliner shells made of smaller panels that are acid dipped first and then assembled or has CAF USA built a full size car length dip tank in Elmira?
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Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby DutchRailnut » Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:51 pm

Who knows, but shells will be made in Elmira, Kawasaki will be making the M-8 shells in Nebraska.
maybe they use a different proces to acid treat the shells.
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Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby Pacific 2-3-1 » Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:56 am

DutchRailnut wrote:Yes CAF will produce the entire car in Elmira, including the shell.

see:
http://www.stargazette.com/article/2010 ... d-575-jobs


Thanks.

I think that Morrison-Knudson Co. (later under the guise of "Amerail") also fabricated its Viewliner sleeper shells in this country -- at Hornell, NY (now an Alstom facility).
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Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby DutchRailnut » Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:47 am

I believe Amerail and even Alstom import shells from either portugal or Brasil.
The Comet V shells came from Brasil I Believe.
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Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby David Benton » Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:38 pm

what is the purpose of the Acid dip ???
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Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby DutchRailnut » Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:44 pm

to stop any corrosion, stainless steel will corrode where any grinding or welding took place, so the ferrous metal particles have to be elliminated.

todays MIG and TIG welding specially with innert gas may have elliminated that problem.
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Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby David Benton » Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:24 pm

oh ok , there is a easy fix to that , ( i used to be a welder in the food industry , heaps of stainless ) . just use dedicated wire brushes , grinding dishes etc , so no iron gets mixed with the stainless . but i guess you cant fill a whole car body up with argon , which is how they ensure no impurities in stainless pipes etc .
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Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby Tadman » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:28 pm

Was this plant originally a rail-related shop and what railroad line serves it?
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Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby DutchRailnut » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:32 pm

The shop was ABB where the MNCR FL-9ac's were built, Elmira is served by NS.
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Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby Matt Johnson » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:25 pm

I hope they're more competent than Super Steel Schenectady!
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Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby David Benton » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:02 pm

i wonder what the cost per car would be if they were aliminuim or steel ?
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Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby DutchRailnut » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:15 pm

in the long run twice as high, since they would not last half as long.
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Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby JoshKarpoff » Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:42 pm

David Benton wrote:i wonder what the cost per car would be if they were aliminuim or steel ?

Less, but there's an issue of upfront cost versus long-term value here.

If one looks at the history, Amtrak can't exactly expect to get new cars very often and the appropriations it does get aren't always enough to pay for the top notch maintenance that they strive for. So, even if Steel or Aluminum car bodies were cheaper, would they require more maintenance money and labor to keep them running as long as Amtrak's Stainless Steel fleet can run? Look how the NYCT R32's (first NYC cars to use stainless steel) have outlasted even the R44's.
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