Viewliner II Delivery/Production

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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby dgvrengineer » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:04 pm

This has dragged on so long and has to be such a corporate embarrassment they probably hope everyone will forget about it. I can't imagine a private company tolerating such incompetence as this.
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby ryanov » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:35 pm

Then you don’t have a very good imagination.

Since you don’t know what’s going on, it’s pretty hard to determine it’s incompetence. I encounter more or less the same level of incompetence no matter what the organization. If you want to believe the propaganda that private business is better than anything else, be my guest, but there are more than enough examples to the contrary.
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby Tadman » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:06 pm

I'm with DGVR. This is incompetence.

As for the claim that this is "propaganda", I'd posit that Amtrak's rolling stock procurement history is 100% accurate empirical evidence to the contrary. Since the 1968 Metroliner EMU program, each procurement of rolling stock off-the-shelf and designed and proven by private enterprise has been a success. F40PH, AEM7, amfleet, superliner, horizon, etc...

Each procurement of specialty government-and-consultants-designed rolling stock has been an unmitigated disaster. The empirical evidence carries over to the local commuter carriers for the most part as well. Metroliner, Acela, Viewliner, DE/DM30, et al...

It's plain to see when it takes five years to deliver 55 boxcars (perhaps we know them under their fancy name as baggage cars) that the trend is continuing. For comparison, Budd had to retool from wartime production but still managed to make a similar size order of diners, coaches, and domes in four years.

In the end, the concept of private enterprise reward successful endeavor with money, while unsuccessful endeavor does not see money. At the government, they get their checks and keep their jobs regardless, so it's little wonder why we don't get an explanation, we don't see any heads rolling at CAF or Amtrak. You may also notice the same exact problem across the country at the corridor bilevel project. Those cars are almost as late as the Viewliner 2.
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby Backshophoss » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:37 am

However, Nipon Sharyo after the Crush test failure, the HQ in Japan folded and shut down their US facility and operation.
(aka: loss of corporate face to the world!)
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby mtuandrew » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:47 am

I would be wholly unsurprised if the lion’s share of the V-II delays could be chalked up to Amtrak simply moving at a snail’s pace in every phase from plan to acceptance, and CAF not having the guts to walk away and sue for breach over the delays.
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:31 am

First; Mr. Dunville, 70 "boxcars" vice 55.

Second; Mr. Backshop, as part of fulfilling my "sad obligation" in Iowa (ref: Railroadiana Forum) last month, I did drive Westward on I-88 by the Nippon Rochelle, IL plant. Although its signage remains, it's "dead". It's house tracks are being used to store grain Hopper cars not needed until next harvest.
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby east point » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:54 pm

Study Amtrak's year end reports. A glaring note is that capital improvements have been below plan every year. Where has some of the "savings" come from? Slow delivery of the V-2s. That is a way to make Amtrak's financials look better than they really are! There are others of course. one is the slower than planned of the CAT replacements!
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby ApproachMedium » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:54 am

The problem is the longer it takes for these things to come out of the factory the more it costs amtrak and CAF. So i really think at this point there wont be anything else coming because they probably ran out of money.
No good deed goes unpunished.
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby bratkinson » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:42 pm

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if CAF is 'holding up' Amtrak for more money to complete the order...AKA...cost overruns. The REAL problem, however, is inflation. The $1,000,000 (nice round number for the sake of argument and in no way reflects reality) now 'costs' $1,200,000 to deliver.

At this point, Amtrak likes the 'improved' bottom line due to unspent capital dollars and CAF is only too eager to quietly put the new cars 'to sleep'. I'd be surprised if we see any new V IIs from CAF before 2020, if at all, if ever.
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby gokeefe » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:26 pm

Amtrak accounts for capital money separately from operations. I think your analysis is flawed.
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby Matt Johnson » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:42 pm

What ever became of the lone released bag dorm? I'm pretty sure all the sleeper shells are done, so I hope they can at least be used for SWAT training if the rebuilt Turboliners get too many bullet holes in them! :)
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby Backshophoss » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:55 pm

Believe that Bag- Dorm and Sleeper wound up back at the factory after NEC testing,and stayed there!!!
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby Matt Johnson » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:36 am

The ones from the initial testing did, yes, but then with the last delivery from CAF there was a lone bag dorm released with the diners.
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby Matt Johnson » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:08 pm

I'm assuming no news is bad news. This showed up in my recommended videos list on youtube. What struck me was the date: over 5 years ago!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHAGdl5J0uw
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby electricron » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:11 am

Matt Johnson wrote:I'm assuming no news is bad news. This showed up in my recommended videos list on youtube. What struck me was the date: over 5 years ago!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHAGdl5J0uw


This YouTube video was published on Oct 24, 2013
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