Viewliner II Delivery/Production

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Arlington
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Post by Arlington » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:28 am

ApproachMedium wrote:Maybe by the time i retire ill see them all delievered... before CAF meets their commitment.
Haven't we determined that it is as much that Amtrak is not eager to take delivery?
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn

daybeers
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Post by daybeers » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:09 pm

CAF still delayed the order substantially. Siemens is absolutely demolishing the game compared to CAF.

gokeefe
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Post by gokeefe » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:33 pm

Arlington wrote:Haven't we determined that it is as much that Amtrak is not eager to take delivery?
Not at all. We don't really know what happened at this point. Amtrak OIG might ...
gokeefe

ApproachMedium
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Post by ApproachMedium » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:09 am

Arlington wrote:
ApproachMedium wrote:Maybe by the time i retire ill see them all delievered... before CAF meets their commitment.
Haven't we determined that it is as much that Amtrak is not eager to take delivery?
Amtrak would gladly take all the cars at once when they are ready. Amtrak took 18 baggage cars at once.
No good deed goes unpunished.

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Amtrak706
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Post by Amtrak706 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:05 pm

ApproachMedium wrote:
Arlington wrote:
ApproachMedium wrote:Maybe by the time i retire ill see them all delievered... before CAF meets their commitment.
Haven't we determined that it is as much that Amtrak is not eager to take delivery?
Amtrak would gladly take all the cars at once when they are ready. Amtrak took 18 baggage cars at once.
But that was still during the pro-LD administration that ordered them.

ApproachMedium
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Post by ApproachMedium » Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:09 am

Not much has changed those cars were still years late.
No good deed goes unpunished.

dgvrengineer
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Post by dgvrengineer » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:21 pm

Anyone heard anything about more car releases from CAF? Hopefully they will get out some more baggage-dorms and maybe a sleeper or two soon.

Matt Johnson
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Post by Matt Johnson » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:16 pm

dgvrengineer wrote:Anyone heard anything about more car releases from CAF? Hopefully they will get out some more baggage-dorms and maybe a sleeper or two soon.
Nope, but I've seen recent photos of the prototype Viewliner diner 8400 being used along with old Heritage cars to meet axle count requirements in Illinois. Sickening.

ApproachMedium
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Post by ApproachMedium » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:53 am

thats not sickening. at least its being used. Whats sickening is the sale of lots of cars and engines that could be rebuilt to fill gaps in service.
No good deed goes unpunished.

mtuandrew
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Post by mtuandrew » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:55 am

True, Amtrak could use any box on wheels to satisfy CN’s axle count nonsense. It has a deep backlot still at Beech - why not any shell of a car, like a wreck-repair Horizon or Amfleet without a complete interior? It even might have a few MHCs that could serve the purpose, if they can get COTS successfully.

twropr
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Post by twropr » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:20 pm

According to my notes, "Dover", "Frankford" and "Providence" diners still have not been released from CAF.
Is this correct?
Andy

Gilbert B Norman
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Post by Gilbert B Norman » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:15 am

twropr wrote:According to my notes, "Dover", "Frankford" and "Providence" diners still have not been released from CAF.
Is this correct?
Andy
Actually, it's Albany, Dover, and Frankfort.

When I saw that the immediate post was made by Mr. Approach, I thought something had been released. There are still thirty seven cars to go (the noted three Diners, nine Dorms, and twenty five Sleepers).

There has been nothing released in four months; the Dorms and Sleepers represent additional revenue space to sell. The status of the unfilled order is "most definitely on the QT".

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Tadman
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Post by Tadman » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:23 am

I think we're confusing a few different problems here. As I see it, the issues being discussed are:

1. What to do with diners not used for full service in the short term (IE current administration)
2. What do do with diners long term
3. What to do for axle count cars
4. What did the state ask for?
5. How to sell these seats in the diners-table cars

In the short term, most anything is better than being an axle count car. I think they could honestly sell a table seat as a sort of business class seat. I like to spread out my work. While the benches aren't ideal for 6-8 hour rides, they are just fine for 2-4 hours. It's worth noting that busines class sells out frequently on midwest trains, which means the car counts for axles anyway while earning revenue.

In the long term, that's anybody's guess. It all goes back to that famous question we can never solve - is this a business or a service?

What to do for axle count cars? Honestly, I've always thought that if this rule is going to stay for long term, Amtrak should order six-axle power and passenger cars. Yes, it's more costly and old fashioned, but how crazy is dragging empty and old baggage cars around? How crazy is it to drag around brand new diners? None of the above makes any sense.

What did the states ask for? I don't know that states are always the heart of innovation. It might be worth take the proposal to the states and selling them on upgraded business class with new cars and maybe a coffee/snack stand. Just because the state didn't ask for it doesn't mean you can't sell them on it.

How to sell the seats? This is an open ended discussion, but I sure wouldn't give them away.

Gilbert B Norman
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Post by Gilbert B Norman » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:25 pm

mtuandrew wrote:
Sorry, this is way beyond V-IIs.
You said it, Mr. Stephens; this topic has gone wild.

Official sources have simply gone "Ziplips" regarding when, or if, the 37 remaining V-II's will be delivered. Even the reliable "internal" sources around here have gone noticably silent.

But lest we forget the contract between Amtrak and CAF is bilateral and exempt from public disclosure. Any litigation that has or may arise from the execution of this contract is likewise shielded.

It's time for "Phase V - Acceptance" that little, if any, information regarding performance of the contract will be available in the public domain.

But allow me to say, this has been the most "botched" major procurement of equipment Amtrak has confronted within its 47 years of existence.

Matt Johnson
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Post by Matt Johnson » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:24 pm

Gilbert B Norman wrote:
But allow me to say, this has been the most "botched" major procurement of equipment Amtrak has confronted within its 47 years of existence.
Assuming the RTL-III Turboliner upgrade doesn't count as major, then I guess it's either this or the Nippon-Sharyo bilevel order. At least this has produced some actual rolling stock, though I guess the other procurement will too in the form of Siemens single level cars.

Any word on where the one bag-dorm went after being delivered?

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