Acela Replacement and Disposition Discussion

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Re: Acela Replacement and Disposition Discussion

Postby Matt Johnson » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:51 pm

Far from slummy and not much different in feel than the area around Grand Central (having just walked between the two last month). But also an area undergoing some massive development:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewSjmhCD5ew
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Re: Acela Replacement and Disposition Discussion

Postby Rockingham Racer » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:50 pm

Been non-slummy for years.
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Re: Acela Replacement and Disposition Discussion

Postby bostontrainguy » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:55 pm

Tadman wrote:Agreed, I come through NYP 3-4 times a year and cannot fathom the slummy description.


And let's been honest, in the wildest foamer dream you won't see Acela service into GCT. There is just no way to get a train from Jersey into GCT. You either get Acela service to NYP or you don't get Acela service to Manhattan.

Finally, we should frame the debate: how bad is NYP and the surrounding area compared with La Guardia, where the shuttle is? If I worked or lived anywhere but Long Island, there is no way I would prefer the La Guardia slog coupled with the La Guardia experience.


La Guardia isn't all that nice either.
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Re: Acela Replacement and Disposition Discussion

Postby Tadman » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:06 pm

That's my point. LGA is a dump. Other than Marine Terminal which is ok but nothing amazing. No subway access, either.
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Re: Acela Replacement and Disposition Discussion

Postby adamj023 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:10 pm

LGA is being fixed up and JetBlue is getting the use of the marine air terminal till rest of terminal is redone then it will move into the new terminal. Air train is coming in the futue as well.

As far as Amtrak Acela cars go, it would be nice if the Acela trainsets being replaced would be kept in usage for other lines, perhaps replace the existing North Eastern corridor trains with them or reutilze the cars on other lines. The Acela trainsets are way newer and better than the older trains and I don’t see why they couldn’t be reutilized.

Are the previous metroliner cars still In service?
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Re: Acela Replacement and Disposition Discussion

Postby Matt Johnson » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:07 pm

adamj023 wrote:Are the previous metroliner cars still In service?


The Amfleets that had been used for Metroliner service are still of course used as Regional coaches. More remarkable is that some of the original Budd Metroliners are still in service as cab cars! And then there's the conference car, #9800, which still sports the Metroliner name.
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Re: Acela Replacement and Disposition Discussion

Postby SwingMan » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:36 pm

As has been established, the current Acela train sets are very expensive to maintain, and are a maintenance headache at that. They're going to be basically worth more as scrap once the new stuff is initiated.
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Re: Acela Replacement and Disposition Discussion

Postby bostontrainguy » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:26 pm

SwingMan wrote:As has been established, the current Acela train sets are very expensive to maintain, and are a maintenance headache at that. They're going to be basically worth more as scrap once the new stuff is initiated.


Yeah, but again . . . what is maintenance intensive? If it's the tilting mechanism, remove it.
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Re: Acela Replacement and Disposition Discussion

Postby Backshophoss » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:58 pm

The Acela I cars are not compatible wit the rest of the fleet. Since Amtrak wont scrap the sets right away ,
the Acela I's might be used as a part time surge fleet during the Heavy Traffic Holidays after all the Acela II's are in service.
There will be a period of time when both the Acela I's and the Acela II's will share track space as the Aclea II's go online from the factory.
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Re: Acela Replacement and Disposition Discussion

Postby andrewjw » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:49 pm

If you don't understand why the Acela 1 won't be kept in service once the Acela 2 arrives, please go reread the last few weeks of this thread. It has been made quite clear that they are a maintenance headache for a variety of reasons - you can't just "remove the tilting" from a train which was built from the ground up to tilt, and even if you did the remaining parts would be far more different to maintain to a level of service which is any better than ACS-64 plus Amfleet.
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Re: Acela Replacement and Disposition Discussion

Postby Matt Johnson » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:12 pm

LRCs had tilt removed, and maintenance nightmare Budd Metroliners became conventional cab cars. I don't know what the future holds for the Acela 1 sets, but time will tell. I say send one across the pond to complement the Shinkansen!
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Re: Acela Replacement and Disposition Discussion

Postby mtuandrew » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:49 pm

On the one hand, AX-Is are an orphan fleet, built overly heavy and in need of a midlife overhaul. On the other, they are a 121 car orphan fleet with a single owner and relatively low miles. They’ll still probably become razors or soup cans, but with the price of steel relatively low, these cars could possibly be worth more as rolling stock (usual disclaimers apply re: rebuilding.)
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Re: Acela Replacement and Disposition Discussion

Postby BandA » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:42 pm

Dozens of pages back I suggested selling them to a country that has lower labor costs and looser safety standards, and lower duty cycles. I was practically run out of town on rails. Others have hinted that some of the parts might fit European electric engines.
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Re: Acela Replacement and Disposition Discussion

Postby mtuandrew » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:57 pm

BandA wrote:Dozens of pages back I suggested selling them to a country that has lower labor costs and looser safety standards, and lower duty cycles. I was practically run out of town on rails.


I think we are that country :P everyone else uses lighter-weight stock, except Canada.
[quote=“BandA”]Others have hinted that some of the parts might fit European electric engines.[/quote]
Even if they do (I recall these were partially based on TGV designs) it would be unexpected for SNCF to go thrift store shopping in Delaware.

That said, I have the perfect solution:

Sell them to West Virginia, so that state can work off its debt to Philly AF and run a Broadway Limited through Pennsylvania. :P (but wouldn’t it be fitting for the Acela fleet to replace the Keystone Metroliners, just as they replaced regular cars on the Main Line?)
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Re: Acela Replacement and Disposition Discussion

Postby electricron » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:19 pm

mtuandrew wrote:Even if they do (I recall these were partially based on TGV designs) it would be unexpected for SNCF to go thrift store shopping in Delaware.

That said, I have the perfect solution:

Sell them to West Virginia, so that state can work off its debt to Philly AF and run a Broadway Limited through Pennsylvania. :P (but wouldn’t it be fitting for the Acela fleet to replace the Keystone Metroliners, just as they replaced regular cars on the Main Line?)

Amtrak doesn’t want to own, lease, or operate them anymore. So we have to find someone else who might. VIA is obviously someone else who might, and they’re looking for modern cars for their corridor. They would only have to replace the power units, something Bombardier can do.
Other American HSR routes, apart from Amtrak, might buy these. Texas Central is really wanting to buy Japanese N700 trains, California also wants 200 mph trains although they haven’t committed to a train yet, so that leaves the Las Vegas HSR line as the last possibility. They keep changing their names, is it Desert Express still? They haven’t committed to a train yet either, and they don’t need 200 mph speeds, they would be happy with 150 mph speeds. So the Acela train sets as is will fit their needs perfectly. Whether they buy brand new or pick up well maintained used sets will probably depend upon price. If they could pick the Acela sets up very cheap, at scrap prices, the savings on rolling stock should make it easier to finance building their new HSR rail line.

I’ll agree it will be hard to see reusing the Acela train sets elsewhere in the world besides North America because they would be considered too heavy.
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