Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Postby gokeefe » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:26 pm

At $17,000,000 that's about 50 engineers for a year (avg. $340,000 all in). Not a bad deal at all considering generally high costs of labor.
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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Postby jamestrains1 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:41 pm

The images below are from the Hudson Tunnel Project DEIS, they contain cross section images of the existing North River Tunnel, the proposed North River Tunnel, and the new (Gateway) North River Tunnel.

Existing and Proposed Cross Section of current North River Tunnel
HUDSON TUNNEL PROJECT
Draft Environmental Impact Statement and Draft Section 4(f) Evaluation
Chapter 2: Project Alternatives and Description of the Preferred Alternative

http://www.hudsontunnelproject.com/documents/deis/02%20Alternatives%20and%20Preferred%20Alternative.pdf
see pdf pg. 41
EXIST-NRT.PNG

PROPOSED_NRT.PNG



New (Gateway) North River Tunnel Cross Section
HUDSON TUNNEL PROJECT
Draft Environmental Impact Statement and Draft Section 4(f) Evaluation
Chapter 2: Project Alternatives and Description of the Preferred Alternative

http://www.hudsontunnelproject.com/documents/deis/02%20Alternatives%20and%20Preferred%20Alternative.pdf
see pdf pg. 24
NEW_TUNNEL.PNG

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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Postby jamestrains1 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:17 pm

Interesting Detail - New Tunnel Capacity Limitations due to NFPA 130

The new (Gateway) North River Tunnel tubes will have their inherent capacity limited due to strict adherence to National Fire Protection Association 130, which, among stipulating that that tunnels longer than 2,500ft require cross-passageways spaced every 800ft or less, also stipulates that only one train be present in each ventilation zone.

To put it succinctly, only one train at a time can be in either of these new Gateway Tunnel tubes. This is a limitation that does not exist with the current two North River Tunnel tubes, or with the four East River Tunnel tubes.

HUDSON TUNNEL PROJECT
Draft Environmental Impact Statement and Draft Section 4(f) Evaluation
Chapter 2: Project Alternatives and Description of the Preferred Alternative

http://www.hudsontunnelproject.com/documents/deis/02%20Alternatives%20and%20Preferred%20Alternative.pdf
see pdf pg. 44
In addition, the new Hudson River Tunnel’s ventilation system would also reduce capacity in comparison to the North River Tunnel: compliance with the latest life-safety standard (i.e., NFPA 130) would require that only one train be present in each ventilation zone, a capacity constraint that does not exist for the North River Tunnel.


CAPACITY.PNG




Another interesting detail, the new tunnel tubes will have an outside diameter of approximately 28ft which is 1.5ft smaller than the 29.5ft outside diameter of the vehicular Holland Tunnel tubes completed in 1927. The Tunnel Boring Machines (TBMs) for the new tunnel themselves will have a diameter of approximately 30ft.
HUDSON TUNNEL PROJECT Draft Environmental Impact Statement and Draft Section 4(f) Evaluation
Chapter 3: Construction Methods and Activities

see pdf pg. 7
http://www.hudsontunnelproject.com/documents/deis/03%20Construction%20Methods%20and%20Activities.pdf
TBM.PNG



HUDSON TUNNEL PROJECT
Draft Environmental Impact Statement and Draft Section 4(f) Evaluation
Chapter 2: Project Alternatives and Description of the Preferred Alternative

see pdf pg. 23
http://www.hudsontunnelproject.com/documents/deis/02%20Alternatives%20and%20Preferred%20Alternative.pdf
Tunnel-Diameter.PNG




One of the largest cost drivers of the project is the large amount (15) of cross passages. In particular, the cross passages that will be required mid-river are expected to be most costly and challenging as they involve ground freezing.
HUDSON TUNNEL PROJECT
Draft Environmental Impact Statement and Draft Section 4(f) Evaluation
Chapter 2: Project Alternatives and Description of the Preferred Alternative

see pdf pg. 23
http://www.hudsontunnelproject.com/documents/deis/02%20Alternatives%20and%20Preferred%20Alternative.pdf
The two tubes of the new Hudson River Tunnel would be connected by cross passages
approximately every 750 feet, for a total of 15 cross passages. Cross passages would be
provided in both the land portion and the river portion of the tunnel. Fire-rated doors would be
located at the start of the cross passages in each tube to separate the tubes.

Tunnel-Diameter.PNG



If you are interested in further reading regarding NFPA 130, I highly recommend the study below which was presented at the American Public Transportation Association (APTA) 2015 Rail Conference in Salt Lake City, UT.
Cross-passageways vs. Emergency Exit Stairways in Rail Tunnels
https://www.apta.com/mc/rail/previous/2015rail/presentations/Presentations/JUSTIN%20EDENBAUM%20-%20Cross-PassagewaysVsStairs-Edenbaum.pdf
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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Postby bostontrainguy » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:54 pm

Looks like a lot if wasted space under that Genesis that could be used to "future-proof" the new tunnels and allow for higher bi-level equipment in the near future.

Anyone have similar diagrams of the East River tunnels? They will have to be rebuilt or replaced some day too.
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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Postby jamestrains1 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:25 pm

jamestrains1 wrote:One of the largest cost drivers of the project is the large amount (15) of cross passages. In particular, the cross passages that will be required mid-river are expected to be most costly and challenging as they involve ground freezing.
HUDSON TUNNEL PROJECT
Draft Environmental Impact Statement and Draft Section 4(f) Evaluation
Chapter 2: Project Alternatives and Description of the Preferred Alternative

see pdf pg. 23
http://www.hudsontunnelproject.com/documents/deis/02%20Alternatives%20and%20Preferred%20Alternative.pdf
The two tubes of the new Hudson River Tunnel would be connected by cross passages
approximately every 750 feet, for a total of 15 cross passages. Cross passages would be
provided in both the land portion and the river portion of the tunnel. Fire-rated doors would be
located at the start of the cross passages in each tube to separate the tubes.




More information regarding the construction of the cross passages can be found in this presentation on the ARC project. Although a different project, the current project maintains a near similar alignment prior to the Hudson river.


Hudson River Tunnels, Mega Projects, and Risk – A Designer’s Perspective
https://engineering.purdue.edu/PGS/past-events/2011/presentations/Chapman-PGS-2011.pdf
see pdf pg. 16
CP1.PNG


CP2.PNG


CP3.PNG

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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Postby east point » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:32 pm

bostontrainguy wrote:Looks like a lot if wasted space under that Genesis that could be used to "future-proof" the new tunnels and allow for higher bi-level equipment in the near future.

Anyone have similar diagrams of the East River tunnels? They will have to be rebuilt or replaced some day too.



@ of the tunnels were severly damaged by "SANDY" . One is planned to be repaired soon which started the thread about the "L" tunnel.
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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Postby jamestrains1 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:50 pm

bostontrainguy wrote:Looks like a lot if wasted space under that Genesis that could be used to "future-proof" the new tunnels and allow for higher bi-level equipment in the near future.

Anyone have similar diagrams of the East River tunnels? They will have to be rebuilt or replaced some day too.


Although I am unable to locate similar diagrams of the East River Tunnels, below are some comparable images of the East River Tunnel, many more can be found via a google search. I hope this helps.
fig12.png


fig11.png
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