End of the Full Dome (Ocean View)

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Re: End of the Full Dome (Ocean View)

Postby dgvrengineer » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:30 pm

If it has reached the end of the line, I hope it will at least be used as a parts source. Since everyone seems to agree parts are hard to find, it would be a shame just to send it to a scrapper. Doesn't the BNSF have a GN Great Dome or are all of theirs ex-Santa Fe?
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Re: End of the Full Dome (Ocean View)

Postby mtuandrew » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:34 pm

I had no idea how much Amtrak Mechanical loathed 10031, given how much the public loves it.

Ok, it sounds like Ocean View is fated to pass out of Amtrak ownership for sundry operational and mechanical reasons, not least of which the car is older than nearly every Amtrak employee and twice as cantankerous. Why is scrapping the chosen solution? Why not dump the car at a historical society and promptly decertify the entire series for Amtrak haulage? (If you want to get creative, decertify all six-axle passenger cars over a certain height and weight from operating on a regular passenger train.) Why not disable the car in such a way that its passenger career is over but its static display career is unharmed? There are a number of ways to effectively say “no more dome operation, ever” without scrapping a rarity - and I expect more responsibility and oversight from the National Rail Passenger Corporation than I do from John Travolta!
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Re: End of the Full Dome (Ocean View)

Postby eolesen » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:39 pm

Hold on... there are several operational full domes that don’t have 10031’s issues so why ban those from Amtrak haulage?
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Re: End of the Full Dome (Ocean View)

Postby Backshophoss » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:24 am

Amtrak had issues with some of IP's equipment when the "Pullman Journey's"cars broke an axle on CONO a year or so back,
at least 1 IP owned ex-ATSF big Dome was bounced off the SW Chief at ABQ for issues. Those 3 axle trucks can be a bear to deal with in the field,
but are needed to handle the cars weight.
Should be noted that most of IP's cars have expired inspections by now,and will not be hauled by Amtrak any way!
Worse case 10013 could be moved as a freight car to the home of "Hustle Muscle" in MN for display.
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Re: End of the Full Dome (Ocean View)

Postby mtuandrew » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:47 pm

Backshophoss wrote:Worse case 10013 could be moved as a freight car to the home of "Hustle Muscle" in MN for display.

Exactly what I mean. MTM would make space however necessary to fit this car.

Mr Olesen, Hoss addressed what I mean specifically about three-axle trucks, which it seems Amtrak doesn’t want even under locomotives. Would be easy for them to ban as a class, except in dedicated movements.
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Re: End of the Full Dome (Ocean View)

Postby XC Tower » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:11 pm

Sad ending for a wonderful car which added so much to the “step out of the ordinary” experience of the passenger train on so many routes...My riding in it along Lake Champlain was awesome!…Hard to imagine that there will be no more....
It facing the scrapper’s torch really smacks of a decision coming down from above who, at best, doesn’t care in the least, but I suspect worse.....The new era at Amtrak....I will say no more....



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Re: End of the Full Dome (Ocean View)

Postby Tadman » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:25 pm

Something indeed is amiss here. If it can roll on 49, it can roll to a museum. I'm not usually one to hope to save every last piece, I like to see vibrant museums with robust collection rather than stuff rusting in the weeds. But this is a significant piece.

Perhaps Amtrak doesn't want to see it coming back in private varnish service, they may really dislike the darn thing, and they are killing it on purpose.

I can also imagine it's a beast for a museum to care for. Consider the giant trucks probably aren't great for museum track, which isn't known to be amazing quality. Also, superdomes are known to get very hot, requiring very robust HEP amperage to keep the chillers running. Once the glass fogs up, the repair bill is probably enormous. It would be interesting to hear from the 261 crew about the upkeep for their full dome car.

I'm not very familiar with MTM, IE how much indoor storage space they have or where they operate. I seem to remember they loan stuff to LSRM in Duluth, which is a great operation. But here's the catch: despite having an amazing collection and being very close to Lake Superior, the lake is rarely visible from their train, even in the Budd dome they have. I much preferred the open air heavyweight DM&IR car. Here are a few pics from the ride, you can see that with the exception of the 1-2 mile lakeside section, there is little but woods to look at.

https://scontent.ford4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=5D2C6526

https://scontent.ford4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=5D448696

https://scontent.ford4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=5D2D86CE

https://scontent.ford4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=5D3B7E54
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Re: End of the Full Dome (Ocean View)

Postby markhb » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:13 pm

Last fall, I took a day off, and had a choice between riding POR-BRK ( which I hadn't done), or riding to BON on a train with the dome (which I had also never done). I took the former, and I don't think it was a week later that the accident happened. It's not as tragic as what the world is losing today, but I'll still regret missing my chance at riding in it.
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Re: End of the Full Dome (Ocean View)

Postby Matt Johnson » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:15 pm

NJ Transit's Bombardier multilevel coaches basically have the same floor arrangement as a full dome. Would love to see a modern dome based on that car! (Obviously thinking of a hypothetical ideal world where Amtrak's CEO thought a proper replacement for things like the Pacific Parlour and the dome lounge was something more than jack squat.)
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Re: End of the Full Dome (Ocean View)

Postby mtuandrew » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:56 pm

Tad: I’m a member of MTM, and for the moment a dome would have to occupy yard space - I don’t think they have an open roundhouse bay at the moment. They’d find room eventually but that might be most of a season. It could operate eventually though, and would look good with the remainder of MTM’s Empire Builder fleet.

LSRM might have more room to take the car right now though, whether or not they chose to loan out the car to operate in the future.

Mark: I haven’t even had the energy re: Notre Dame de Paris. It’s terrible :(
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Re: End of the Full Dome (Ocean View)

Postby DutchRailnut » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:06 pm

despite the rumors of scrapping , I believe this car to be picked up by private entity.
many private cars have 3 axle trucks and so far no PV owners have had notices of banning of any such wheel arrangements.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: End of the Full Dome (Ocean View)

Postby mtuandrew » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:50 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:despite the rumors of scrapping , I believe this car to be picked up by private entity.
many private cars have 3 axle trucks and so far no PV owners have had notices of banning of any such wheel arrangements.

Which collector?

The only thing that leads me to believe Amtrak isn’t lighting the torches is that 10031 never appeared on the surplus list. That leads me to four possible conclusions:

1) Amtrak wishes to keep Ocean View, either in storage or operation,

2) Amtrak has already reached terms with an organization to receive Ocean View as a donation,

3) Amtrak has decided that not only has Ocean View reached & exceeded its service life, but that it is a liability and a danger to any future user either in service or stationary and must be decommissioned and disassembled (even if that’s just masking bitterness at 10031), or

4) someone at Amtrak is truly attempting to remove all Heritage equipment from the roster at all costs, to what end I’m not sure. If that’s the case, I expect Pacific Command and other remaining Heritage equipment to go within the year.

I’d say it’s to make a quick buck at the scrap dealer, but NRPC isn’t exactly hurting for scrap stainless.
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Re: End of the Full Dome (Ocean View)

Postby NorthWest » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:55 pm

There aren't a ton of full domes out there. I don't see Ocean View being scrapped if someone's willing to purchase it for higher than scrap value, which seems to me to be a realistic prospect.
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Re: End of the Full Dome (Ocean View)

Postby Backshophoss » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:36 am

Other than "Friends of MILW 261 " ex-MILW Full Dome and BNSF Biz Fleet,the rest of the known "active" Big Domes are under IP ownership,all have 3 axle
trucks, there must be some design glitch in the truck's brake rigging that's creating the "problem" that vex's Amtrak's M of E personel. :(

Is the Exhibit train still at 30th st in philly? or stored elsewhere now? The consist is all Heritage fleet except that "gift shop" Amfleet.
That and the "staff Sleeper" that tags along with Beech Grove "Office Car" are the last "active" Heritage fleet other than the Bags retained for
Axle count service on CN(IC) and Wheel and parts being moved to the Running repair shops across the system.
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Re: End of the Full Dome (Ocean View)

Postby NS VIA FAN » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:10 am

Railjunkie wrote:
Ill take a '53 vette with brake issues way cheaper to fix. I got to play with that POS dome car way to many times and cussed it out plenty. It didnt like to stop. When it didnt run it was due to brake issues. Good bye and good riddance

Went to Cuba on vacation and these things right out of the '50s are still in everyday use. BTW....beautiful beaches and resorts...and great people, food and culture + some interesting rail-fanning too!
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