MTA- Metro North new LTR Trunked Radio System???

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MTA- Metro North new LTR Trunked Radio System???

Postby MNCRR9000 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:47 pm

I was looking on radioreference.com and happened to see some discussions about the MTA - Metro North installing a new wide area LTR trunked radio system and was wondering if anyone happened to have any additional information on this new system. Supposedly they are still just in the testing phase.

Thanks
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Re: MTA- Metro North new LTR Trunked Radio System???

Postby Terminal Proceed » Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:42 pm

They are not in the testing phase. There is a trunking system in place in Harmon Yard for use by support services. I believe, but could be wrong on some that functions like Cleaners, mechanics, etc are using them. I know that the Fire Brigade is on it as well as the MN fire chiefs. THEY ARE NOT BEING USED FOR ANYTHING AFFECTING THE MOVEMENT OF TRAINS.

There is a trunking system being tested in GCT. The initial testing phase has concluded and although it works fine there are a few kinks in the mix. A new approach will be tested again soon. These freqs will be for mgmt and SUPPORT functions only.

There will be a trunking system established for every working yard on the property in the future. They will also tie the systems together using fiber optics slowly.

On a side note - The FCC is REQUIRING that ALL licensees of public safety and commercial radio systems be switched over to narrow band frequencies - by I believe the end of 2011 - I could be wrong on the date. So YES that means ALL of the AAR frequencies WILL CHANGE. As far as I know - no determination has been made yet on what those frequencies will be, but I would be willing to bet that the AAR channel list of the (somewhat) near future will probably be much bigger than it currently is.

I do know that the RR is currently evaluating potential replacement portable radios that will accommodate the new FCC requirements. At this point I'm not sure whether they're evaluating replacements for the locomotive and electric train radios.
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Re: MTA- Metro North new LTR Trunked Radio System???

Postby DutchRailnut » Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:07 am

MNCR's HT1250's are narrowband capable, it just needs to be reprogrammed, the Locomotives, M-7 and upgraded M3's are all Narrowband set already.
The AAR spectrum will remain same, but doubling the amount of channels.
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Re: MTA- Metro North new LTR Trunked Radio System???

Postby MNCRR9000 » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:37 am

Hey thanks for the responses. Thats interesting that they are installing the trunked system at all the yards. Is it definite that it is an LTR Trunked Passport System? I heard that the HT1250's have the capability for LTR trunking which is a nice feature so everything can be on one radio. With the support services being on the trunked system what will happen to some of the current support frequencies such as 160.410, 161.1600, etc.?? Thats a nice feature that they are going to tie all the systems together with Fiber Optics, so basically somebody in Croton-Harmon can talk on the radio with someone in the New Haven Yard?? Any idea when the radio system is expected to be completed??
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Re: MTA- Metro North new LTR Trunked Radio System???

Postby Terminal Proceed » Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:04 pm

Jaap - the ht1250 is NOT narrowband capable - they WILL be replacing the radios.
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Re: MTA- Metro North new LTR Trunked Radio System???

Postby Terminal Proceed » Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:05 pm

I havent heard when they expect it to be completed - not for some time i believe
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Re: MTA- Metro North new LTR Trunked Radio System???

Postby DutchRailnut » Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:16 pm

Terminal Proceed wrote:Jaap - the ht1250 is NOT narrowband capable - they WILL be replacing the radios.



Motorola says your wrong, my personal radio has been set for 12.5 band spacing for over a year now.

http://www.motorola.com/staticfiles/Bus ... ocaleId=33

HT1250 Channel Spacing for VHF units is 12.5/15/20/25/30 kHz PLL Steps 2.5, 3.125 kHz
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Re: MTA- Metro North new LTR Trunked Radio System???

Postby MNCRR9000 » Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:23 pm

Terminal Proceed wrote:I havent heard when they expect it to be completed - not for some time i believe


Yeah I had a feeling that it probably wouldn't be done for a while considering that it sounds like a fairly large project between installing everything and testing.

Terminal Proceed wrote:Jaap - the ht1250 is NOT narrowband capable - they WILL be replacing the radios.


I happened to look at information regarding the Motorola HT1250 radio it looks like it is capable of the 25KHz (Wideband) and 12.5KHz (Narrowband) spacing but not 6.25 KHz. I believe that the 12.5KHz mandate is for 2013 but the 6.25 Khz mandate is in 2018.

Any idea what type of portables you guys would go with, I read that most of the other railroad are going with ICOMs and Kenwoods.
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Re: MTA- Metro North new LTR Trunked Radio System???

Postby DutchRailnut » Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:54 pm

If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: MTA- Metro North new LTR Trunked Radio System???

Postby MNCRR9000 » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:43 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:no mandate for 6.25 yet.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/topics/tec ... anding.htm


Dutch, Thanks for that link. Its interesting how some website mention that there is a 2018 mandate for 6.25 Khz. Kind of wonder where they get there information but I trust this site.

Sounds like the MNRR communications shop is going to be busy reprogramming all the radios.

Has the trunked system been installed in the Stamford Yard yet??
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Re: MTA- Metro North new LTR Trunked Radio System???

Postby Ken W2KB » Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:02 pm

New FCC order http://www.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2010/db0630/FCC-10-119A1.pdf

Delayed certain manufacturing requirements. It does mention that the 6.25 mandate does not have a date certain as yet since standards are not yet adopted. Also, in footnote 35:

"see also New York Comments at 3. NPSTC states that 6.25 kHz operation can be achieved only by digital equipment, which is more expensive than analog equipment."

New York's observations are likely correct, at least as to the need for digital at that very narrow bandwidth.
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Re: MTA- Metro North new LTR Trunked Radio System???

Postby MNCRR9000 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:02 am

Ken W2KB wrote:New FCC order http://www.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2010/db0630/FCC-10-119A1.pdf

Delayed certain manufacturing requirements. It does mention that the 6.25 mandate does not have a date certain as yet since standards are not yet adopted. Also, in footnote 35:

"see also New York Comments at 3. NPSTC states that 6.25 kHz operation can be achieved only by digital equipment, which is more expensive than analog equipment."

New York's observations are likely correct, at least as to the need for digital at that very narrow bandwidth.


Interesting stuff thanks for the info.

I was wondering would anyone happen to have a list of talkgroups for the MNRR trunked radio system?? If not no worries.
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Re: MTA- Metro North new LTR Trunked Radio System???

Postby MNCRR9000 » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:38 pm

I was looking through the FCC database to see if there is a new license pending for Metro North. Looks like each yard is going to have 3 splinter pairs with a total of 18 pairs all together. What I also found interesting is that the emission designator for each frequency is 4K00F1E (6.25 kHz single channel digital voice) which I believe is NEXEDGE.

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/Applica ... ID=5943409

Croton-Harmon Yard
160.3275 MHz
160.6575 MHz
160.7475 MHz

North White Plains Yard
160.3575 MHz
160.5975 MHz
160.6425 MHz

Brewster Yard
160.3425 MHz
160.4325 MHz
160.5225 Mhz

Grand Central
160.2825 MHz
160.4625 MHz
160.7025 MHz

Stamford Yard
160.3275 MHz
160.5675 MHz
160.6425 MHz

New Haven Yard
160.2375 MHz
160.3125 MHz
160.5825 MHz
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