ALCO 251 Inline 6 / S6 Manuals

Discussion of products from the American Locomotive Company. A web site with current Alco 251 information can be found here: Fairbanks-Morse/Alco 251.

Moderator: Alcoman

ALCO 251 Inline 6 / S6 Manuals

Postby WP Mechanic » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:54 pm

Looking for anyone that can direct me to a copy (pref. digital) of an ALCO 251 Inline 6 manual, or even an S6 service manual. Please contact me off list. Thanks.
WP Mechanic
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 5:57 pm

Re: ALCO 251 Inline 6 / S6 Manuals

Postby Alcoman » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:21 pm

I have service as well as parts manuals and wiring diagrams for the S-6, but they are quite large 100-500 pages each so making them PDF would be a big job.
I can make copies on paper easier.
Alcoman
 
Posts: 1562
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:28 pm
Location: Somewhere

Re: ALCO 251 Inline 6 / S6 Manuals

Postby Alcoman » Thu May 10, 2012 4:56 pm

I have found someone who can turn a paper manual for a S-6 into a PDF on a CD. Anyone who wants that and /or wiring diagrams for a few locomotives , let me know.
John
Alcoman
 
Posts: 1562
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:28 pm
Location: Somewhere

Re: ALCO 251 Inline 6 / S6 Manuals

Postby electricalwilly » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:04 pm

I'll take you up on your offer alcoman. If your still offering .. I'd like some wirung diadrams for the s-5 or s-6. Would like to look at excitation system diagrams if you got'em.
electricalwilly
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:12 pm

Re: ALCO 251 Inline 6 / S6 Manuals

Postby Alcoman » Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:35 pm

electricalwilly wrote:I'll take you up on your offer alcoman. If your still offering .. I'd like some wirung diadrams for the s-5 or s-6. Would like to look at excitation system diagrams if you got'em.


I have wiring diagrams as well as manuals for the S-6-both parts and maintenance. Contact me off list. Thanks.
Alcoman
Alcoman
 
Posts: 1562
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:28 pm
Location: Somewhere

Re: ALCO 251 Inline 6 / S6 Manuals

Postby Allen Hazen » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:14 am

Alcoman--
Could you answer a historical question? There is a string on this (Railroad.net : Alco) forum titled "Odd Canadian GE generators" which has raised the question of when GE's "static excitation" control system debuted: we know that Alco's 251-engined road switchers (introduced 1956) had it, that MLW's 244-engined RS10S (introduced 1956) had it, that later GE-electricaled F-M units (starting1956) had it, but the question is whether it was trailed earlier on smaller units: in particular, on the early units powered by 6-251 engines (S-5 and the narrow-gaugeunitsbuilt by GE for the White Pass and Yukon). Can you tell us?
Allen Hazen
 
Posts: 2332
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:14 pm
Location: Edmonton, Canada (formerly Melbourne, Australia)

Re: ALCO 251 Inline 6 / S6 Manuals

Postby Alcoman » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:01 am

Here is what I found:
the 90 series GE units use a GECT5840 traction Generator
The WP&Y ALCO DL535 use a GECT581E2 Traction Generator.

More later.....
ALCOMAN
Alcoman
 
Posts: 1562
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:28 pm
Location: Somewhere

Re: ALCO 251 Inline 6 / S6 Manuals

Postby electricalwilly » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:48 pm

These are interesting questions. GE supplied electrical equipment for the Alco's, ok that is common knowledge. I have documentation and manuals for the amplidyne and then the three field system (U25). I also have everything up through the micro CHEC system. I can trace U25, U30, C30-7, dash 8 ... lineage but the earlier post amplidyne, pre electronics 1956 - 1960's era static systems from GE, are a mystery. The White Pass units may have started amplidyne then went to static. Dont know. GE had such diversity with their systems. Even their smaller switchers had some crude exicitation - unexpectedly simple.

Alcoman, we look to you. How can I contact you about the S6 schematics? Shall I just go to the web site under your contact information? Maybe these 251/S6 were what was used on the White Pass units after all?

P.S. Found out the White Pass units are getting rebuilt with micro-processor alternator units. Using high speed diesels and "platform" diesel/alternator sets. I thought I heard some strange noises (un-ALCO like)from the class 90's a couple of weeks ago when I rode the White Pass as part of cruise excursion. If anybody has the chance, ride the White Pass ... very cool RR, very cool loco's and cars.
electricalwilly
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:12 pm

Re: ALCO 251D Manuals needed

Postby locomotive112 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:46 am

I am looking for manuals for the controls and electrical system of the ALCO DL535E and also for their ALCO 251D 6-cyl engine.

These locomotives were built in 1981 for the White Pass & Yukon as 1500HP (yes I said 1500 not 1200) road switchers in the #111-#114 series.

I am looking for electrical system manuals ( mainly for the control stand and their connections to the governor) (PG governor?) and the MU wiring to the 26L brakes.

I basically need every manual I suppose. Other than the smallish 6-cyl engine, the wiring and manuals should be typical ALCO/MLW of 1980+ vintage.

Thanks Loco112
Think about what you want. Decide to have it. Plan how to get it. Make it happen!
"Only with a great plan can a great project become a great reality"
"An idea without a plan is just a dream"
Loco112 (NarrowGaugeExchange Forum)
locomotive112
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:31 am
Location: Dallas ,Texas. USA

Re: ALCO 251D Manuals needed

Postby Alcoman » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:21 am

locomotive112 wrote:I am looking for manuals for the controls and electrical system of the ALCO DL535E and also for their ALCO 251D 6-cyl engine.

These locomotives were built in 1981 for the White Pass & Yukon as 1500HP (yes I said 1500 not 1200) road switchers in the #111-#114 series.

I am looking for electrical system manuals ( mainly for the control stand and their connections to the governor) (PG governor?) and the MU wiring to the 26L brakes.

I basically need every manual I suppose. Other than the smallish 6-cyl engine, the wiring and manuals should be typical ALCO/MLW of 1980+ vintage.

Thanks Loco112


I can help you with the engine materials, but I am not sure about the electrical system. The closest thing I have would be for the HR412 which is rated at 2000hp.
Contact me off list and I will see what I have that may help you.
Alcoman
Alcoman
 
Posts: 1562
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:28 pm
Location: Somewhere

Re: ALCO 251 Inline 6 / S6 Manuals

Postby Pneudyne » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:21 pm

Allen Hazen wrote: There is a string on this (Railroad.net : Alco) forum titled "Odd Canadian GE generators" which has raised the question of when GE's "static excitation" control system debuted: we know that Alco's 251-engined road switchers (introduced 1956) had it, that MLW's 244-engined RS10S (introduced 1956) had it, that later GE-electricaled F-M units (starting1956) had it, but the question is whether it was trailed earlier on smaller units: in particular, on the early units powered by 6-251 engines (S-5 and the narrow-gaugeunitsbuilt by GE for the White Pass and Yukon).


In respect of the WP&Y GE “shovel-nose” units, electrical equipment details for the 1963 batch were given as: GT-584 main generator, GMG-158 belt-driven combined exciter and auxiliary generator; GY-24 mechanically-driven second auxiliary generator to supply the TM blowers and radiator fan motors, and six GMH-842 TMs (apparently the last-mentioned were drawn from GE’s mining equipment range.). This is from an article in Railway Gazette 1963 November 15. I think it is a reasonable assumption that the Alco 6-251 engines were fitted with Woodward PG governors, but whether it was the version with integral load control rheostat or not is unknown. In fact, whether these locomotives had a load control rheostat at all is unknown and not easily assumed either way. For its smaller locomotives, GE was fond of using the 1924 Lemp inherent characteristic form of load control, for example on the 70 ton and 50/52/54 ton ranges, and also on the small, Caterpillar-engined export Universals. One might well say that this was a form of static excitation control, although clearly not within the spirit of the way this term is normally used.

The information that I have on the Goodwin (Australian) version of Alco DL-531 shows it as having the GT-584 (or similar AEI) generator, and either a belt-driven combined exciter-auxiliary generator, or separate exciter and auxiliary generator, both belt-driven. But it did have the version of the Woodward PG governor with integral load control rheostat. I should infer from this that the DL-531 had a relatively simple excitation control system, essentially 1914 Lemp, with the load control rheostat in series with the exciter battery field. Whether or not there were also throttle notch-switched resistors in series with the load control rheostat, as found in the early GE export Universals is unknown. However there may have been an element of inherent characteristic control built in to the exciter that could have made a switched resistor network unnecessary.

As far as I know the Alco DL-535 moved up to the larger GT-581 main generator because the GT-584 would not handle the increased power output. But it retained the belt-driven exciter-auxiliary generator combination so very likely had a similar excitation control system to the DL-531. With the DL-535 Alco had pushed its 6-251 engine to a higher specific output (higher mep) ahead of doing the same for the 12- and 16-cylinder variants. This may have been because it needed an export model to compete with the GE U12/U13, and at the time lacking an 8-251, had little choice but to uprate its “six”. The GE U12/U13 also had the GT-581 main generator, but the variant with the triplex auxiliary gear drives at the end.

Cheers,
Pneudyne
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:13 pm
Location: Mt. Maunganui, New Zealand


Return to American Locomotive Company - ALCO

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests