CNJ GP40Ps

Discussion of the CNJ (aka the Jersey Central) and predecessors Elizabethtown and Somerville, and Somerville and Easton, for the period 1831 to its inclusion in ConRail in 1976. The historical society site is here: http://www.jcrhs.org/

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CNJ GP40Ps

Postby NortheastTrainMan » Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:10 pm

I have a question about why the CNJ ran the GP40Ps the way they did. I noticed that they ran a lot of their GP40s like that. Was it not being cab cars,lack of turntables and or wyes? Or was it to protect the crew? Why? I loved seeing GP40Ps LHF in regular service but now it's only once in a blue moon :( .
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Postby Jtgshu » Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:29 pm

When they were first delivered, they had dual control stands, so it didn't matter which way the loco was facing, as the engineer would always be on the right. It was much more flexible for them, as they only had a handful of homemade cab cars.

Im assuming the train would get to the end of the line, and the loco would simply run around the train and couple back up to the other end for the trip back.

Sometime during their NJT lives, they had the other control stand taken out (the one that would allow LHF running) and the SHF control stand is the only one remaining.

Someone has to be on the firemans side to call signals when a Geep is running Long Hood Forward with just one control stand. On a work train, thats not a big deal, but on a revenue passenger train, you are taking a crew member away from working the train, thats why they don't like do to it often in pass service.
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Postby NortheastTrainMan » Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:16 pm

why was the other stand taken out? was it the advent of cab cars?
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Postby GSC » Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:35 pm

A safety issue I always wondered about, was why horns facing the long hood were never installed? They could be strangely quiet when blowing for a crossing.

According to a few enginemen I knew back then, no need to turn them was the main selling point of running long hood forward. Protection wasn't really an issue.

If protection was an issue, guys wouldn't have their knees out in front in a cab car.
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Postby NortheastTrainMan » Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:17 pm

the reason why I brought up the protection issue is because the Great Northern railroad ran their freight locomotives LHF because they provided better protection for the crew.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_hood_forward

I agree about the cab cars I think they are great time savers, BUT NOT HIT TAKERS! Did ya'll hear about that Surfliner Cab Car that hit a tractor trailer at 79MPH returned to service 3 years later.
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Postby Ken W2KB » Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:27 pm

NortheastTrainMan wrote:why was the other stand taken out? was it the advent of cab cars?


That and likely when the locos were rebuilt as an O&M savings thereafter.
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Re: CNJ GP40Ps

Postby Caseyjim » Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:21 pm

Given their 3600 series road numbers, weren't these originally B&O units which were leased to the CNJ through the State? I notied that the road number of the first unit falls in behind the last B&O 3600series straight GP40.
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Re: CNJ GP40Ps

Postby Jtgshu » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:12 pm

Caseyjim wrote:Given their 3600 series road numbers, weren't these originally B&O units which were leased to the CNJ through the State? I notied that the road number of the first unit falls in behind the last B&O 3600series straight GP40.


Indeed they are/were. I don't remember the exact details, but I think the B&O underwrote the lease (like a co-signer) for the CNJ, and if the CNJ stopped operating passenger service, the B&O would have taken the units and added them to their freight pool. They were built to B&O specs, right up to the bell being up on the long hood, instead of being underneath!

Notice the paint scheme that they were painted in. The "C N J" on the long hood would be quickly replaced with a "B & O" - which is why they were painted in teh blue/yellow of the B&O and numbered right after their '40s.
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Re: CNJ GP40Ps

Postby clamdigger » Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:07 pm

JT
Allow me to elaborate on your post with the aid of "Jersey Central Diesels"by Gerard Bernet( chapter 6,pg.115).""...the C&O as parent company of the B&O was also forced to review its oligations.At the time,the C&O had established an organization called Railease Inc.to provide,via lease,certain equipment needed by its subsidiary companies.In late 1968 Railease and the State of New Jersey,arranged for the purchase of 13 new EMD locomotives to replace an equal number of vintage units.This includes the 2400-series of TrainMasters."The GP40Ps were broken-in,in freight service entering passenger service in January 1969.And 40 years later,still operational,as you well know.Also at that time,the B&O diesels,for the most part, were painted in the same blue & yellow paint scheme of the parent C&O units.
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Re: CNJ GP40Ps

Postby GSC » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:10 pm

They have to be one of the best designs of any locomotive built. They seemed to last forever, did their jobs well, and a couple engineers I know who ran them loved them. Sometimes a design was just perfect for the job.
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Re: CNJ GP40Ps

Postby pierrerabbit » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:43 pm

Trains magazine put out a special issue "Locomotive 2008" recently, had a nice article about the GP40P's, it may still be on the news stand.
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Re: CNJ GP40Ps

Postby Jtgshu » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:07 am

GSC wrote:They have to be one of the best designs of any locomotive built. They seemed to last forever, did their jobs well, and a couple engineers I know who ran them loved them. Sometimes a design was just perfect for the job.


You make it sound like they are retired! They are still earning their keep day in and day out for the foreseeable future

And yes, the Geeps are perfect :) hahahah
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Re: CNJ GP40Ps

Postby GSC » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:01 pm

I didn't mean to sound like they were gone. I see a few every day, on the NJCL at Bradley Beach, each direction at 10 minutes to the hour, more or less.

They are also "visually superior", meaning they are nice looking locomotives. What a great design.
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Re: CNJ GP40Ps

Postby Jtgshu » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:32 am

GSC wrote:I didn't mean to sound like they were gone. I see a few every day, on the NJCL at Bradley Beach, each direction at 10 minutes to the hour, more or less.

They are also "visually superior", meaning they are nice looking locomotives. What a great design.


Just for clarification tho, the geeps you are seeing at Bradley Beach are NOT the CNJ geeps - they are pretty much held over on the Hoboken side. Every once in a while, one does make it down the coast line, but thats a rarity.

the orignal 13 CNJ geeps are the 4100 to the 4112.

and yes, it is a GREAT design - so thought out, visibility, etc.
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Re: CNJ GP40Ps

Postby GSC » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:16 pm

Just when I get my hopes up...Jtgshu tells me the truth...few CNJ 3600-series GP40s on NJCL...

I didn't know the new number series, so I'll check them out more closely.

I've seen an occasional 4100-something once in awhile.
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