Need clarrification of LNE line in NJ

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Need clarrification of LNE line in NJ

Postby carajul » Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:04 pm

Can someone clarrify this for me. I'm often confused about the geography of the LNE main after it crossed the Deleware River into NJ.

Ok so the mainline crosses in NJ and goes under the DLW viaduct. This location is known as "Hainsburg Jct" but am I correct in that there really is no junction there but rather the rail line goes from being the property of the LNE to the property of the NYSW. But the LNE used the trackage northward as their own. Then at a point called Swartswood Jct there was actually a track juntion there and the NYSW swung east to Sparta and the LNE continued northward on their own rails.

Is that correct?
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Re: Need clarrification of LNE line in NJ

Postby gravelyfan » Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:06 pm

I'll take a stab at this...

At Hainesburg Jct, the L&NE main ended and joined the NYS&W Main. This was a short distance (geographically) southwest of the DL&W Hainesburg Viaduct. The NYS&W Hainesburg Station was located in the shadow of the viaduct.

At one time the NYS&W continued southwest from Hainesburg Junction to Columbia, where it then turned north along the Delaware River, passing under the L&NE and the DL&W and eventually crossing the Delaware River to the north of the I-80 bridge. The NYS&W continued west to Stroudsburg where it met it's subsidiary WB&E (Wilkes Barre & Eastern).

From Hainesburg Jct to Swartswood Jct the L&NE operated on the NYS&W track. East of Swartswood Jct the L&NE operated on its own tracks through northwestern NJ and into New York state where it met up with the Erie Pine Island branch. L&NE trains used the Pine Island Branch to Goshen, entered the Erie Main there then diverged onto the Montgomery Branch, crossing the Graham Line at grade at MQ tower, then diverging onto the New Haven at Campbell Hall Junction to finally access Maybrook Yard.
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Re: Need clarrification of LNE line in NJ

Postby cjvrr » Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:18 pm

caranj,

Originally the NYS&W continued past the LNE connection at Hainesburg Juntion and crossed into PA on its own. The NYS&W also ran south to meet with the DL&W old main south of Columbia, NJ along the Delaware River.

After the NYS&W pulled out of PA the furthest west they went was the connection with the L&NE at Hainesburg Junction. Cars were interchanged there with the L&NE, not at Swartswood Junction so both railroads still used that joint track to its south end to interchange for 20+ years....
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Re: Need clarrification of LNE line in NJ

Postby carajul » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:00 pm

Thanks for the clarrification. Looking at Hainsburg Jct old arieals it appears to have become a wasteland with the buildings and row obliterated by 1970. Mother Nature sure takes thing back quick.

Also can someone send me a live or google map link to Swartswood Jct where the NYSW left the LNE? Thanks.
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Re: Need clarrification of LNE line in NJ

Postby pumpers » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:58 pm

here goes -- let see if the link works. Assuming it comes up in "topo" mode, at Washingtonville the NYSW, which comes up from the southwest, splits off to the east, with the former NYSW ROW heading east shown as a purple dotted line . The LNE continues to the northeast. In "map" mode, it shows the NYSW line only, coming up from the SW and then heading east, with the LNE northeast of the junction not shown, although it shows property boundary lines which make it clear where the LNE was. (Of course, the maps are behind the times, all these lines are long long gone.) JS
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=41.09530,-74.75836&z=15&t=T
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Re: Need clarrification of LNE line in NJ

Postby carajul » Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:22 pm

The topo map works great. Put things in perspective.

So the NYSW that is in place today had a branch line from Sparta Jct (thus the "jct) that went over to connect to the LNE at Swartswood. Makes sense.

I actually sent an email to the NYSW media contact. To my surprised I got a reply! She said that the 'only' reason the NYSW line was in place to Hainsburg was for LNE interchange and once the LNE folded up in 1961 the line became defunct and was abandoned :-(
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Re: Need clarrification of LNE line in NJ

Postby njmidland » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:27 am

Trainlawyer:

While the zinc mine was not abandoned when Conrail abandoned the L&HR south of the Penn Virginia quarry in Sparta, to my knowledge there was never a rail move to the mine in Ogdensburg again. That mine was the only reason that Conrail kept the line going. Zinc prices dropped and the New Jersey Zinc mine shut down, something that happened numerous times over the years. Conrail did not want to wait around and see if it came back and thus did the deal to sell the line from Warwick south to the new end of track at the quarry in Sparta along with the former DL&W Syracuse and Utica branches as well as the haulage rights along with the conversion to trackage rights via Warwick and the original NYS&W. This was in 1982.

The NJ Zinc mine lingered for several years until the town seized the property for non-payment of property taxes. When they got to the site they found that NJZ had turned off the pumps, thus all of the remaining zinc was at mining levels well below water. Today the site is a mining museum where you can still go into the mine at the entry level and peer down into the darkness where the zinc remains.
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Re: Need clarrification of LNE line in NJ

Postby gravelyfan » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:11 am

njmidland wrote:While the zinc mine was not abandoned when Conrail abandoned the L&HR south of the Penn Virginia quarry in Sparta, to my knowledge there was never a rail move to the mine in Ogdensburg again. That mine was the only reason that Conrail kept the line going. Zinc prices dropped and the New Jersey Zinc mine shut down, something that happened numerous times over the years. Conrail did not want to wait around and see if it came back and thus did the deal to sell the line from Warwick south to the new end of track at the quarry in Sparta along with the former DL&W Syracuse and Utica branches as well as the haulage rights along with the conversion to trackage rights via Warwick and the original NYS&W. This was in 1982.


Tim,
The 1982 Conrail-NYS&W deal only included Warwick (Pelton Rd) to Franklin. Conrail retained ownership from Franklin to Belvidere and at a later date (not sure when) but likely after the 1983 abandonment of the Belvidere-Franklin segment (filed by Conrail October 1983), the Franklin-Sparta segment was eventually sold to Sussex County who created some sort of deal with NYS&W to take it over, at which time the NYS&W began the Warwick-Sparta local freight service.

A great chronology of the post 1976 L&HR can be found in this thread on the Anthracite Railroads board on RR.net

viewtopic.php?f=79&t=1299
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Re: Need clarrification of LNE line in NJ

Postby njmidland » Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:25 pm

I would have to really dig through my files to figure out all of the dates, but I agree the sale of the missing link to Sussex County and then them to DO/NYS&W happened after the original Warwick - Franklin deal, but I am pretty sure that even before the 1982 deal that Conrail had ceased running from the south. The only other customer between the quarry and the propane company in Belvidere was the team track at Allamuchy. I have talked to the farmer who got his feed shipped in and he is pretty surehis last load was in the Fall of 1981. An interesting side note is that Conrail never came back to pick up the empty - a PC 50 ft. boxcar. When Conrail eventually tore up the line they left the boxcar and the track under it was left in place. Several years later the car disappeared - at a time of high scrap metal prices!
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Re: Need clarrification of LNE line in NJ

Postby carajul » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:54 pm

Isn't that amazing that at one time the RR would serve a farmer who happened to live along the tracks.

Heck we had to move a private rail car about 3 years ago and no one at NS would even return our calls! And when they finally did email us back (after 20 emails to them requesting service) the rates were 3 times that of trucks. It was cheapter to hire a crane, life the car onto a truck, and truck it on the highway. We saved 60% on the shipping cost! Can you believe that??!?! I don't know if it was an actual rate we were quoted or NS's way of saying "don't bother us".
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