L&HR 4-6-0 Camelbacks

Discussion of the L&HR and its predecessor the Warwick Valley Railroad for the period 1860-1976 at its inclusion with ConRail

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Re: L&HR 4-6-0 Camelbacks

Postby walterconklin » Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:19 pm

Hi Paul,

Thank you for the helpful information you supplied me with about the Camelbacks.

I do not know if Marty Feldner has been active at Railroad.net these last few weeks. I sent him an email and PM in March (I think( regarding another historical railroad matter and he never responded back. Prior to posting my message at Railroad.net, I sent Marty an email inquiring about the Camelbacks because I know he is very knowledgeable about the L&HR motive power. But, again, I did not hear back from him. I hope Marty is alright. I can understand that he might be very busy.

Like you, I am more of a railroad structure guy myself.

Sincerely,
Walter
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Re: L&HR 4-6-0 Camelbacks

Postby Marty Feldner » Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:18 am

I'm still here. Equal parts busy, lazy, and world-class professional procrastinator. I have shots, some unscanned, both L&HR and M&U. In addition to the books that Paul mentioned, the M&NJ Historical Society has covered these engines in their publication, the Unionville Flyer.

Some points about the 20 and 30 class camelbacks...

Numbers 23 to 34 were bought at nearly the same time, so were identical builds; a picture of any one will match the three sold to the M&U. The dimensions Paul gave you are the only ones available. The 64" driver diameter is the key; with that, the rest can pretty much be photoscaled, with some effort. As for a good straight on view, the Vollrath link is a scan of the builders photo (being the first one, 23 is considered the 'class engine'- that's why it was the one photographed). The builder's photo is as good as you're going to get; Baldwin used a glass plate 8"x10" negative view camera. I have an 8"x10" print I bought from H. L. Broadbelt in the seventies. Gotta find the scan...

Valve type? The square valve chest and lack of external dry pipe means slide valve (AKA hat valve, AKA outside admission)- as built. A few of the L&HR camelbacks (both 2-8-0 and 4-6-0) were upgraded to what was known as the 'Economy Valve Chest'. Basically a piston valve (AKA spool valve, AKA inside admission) kit was fitted into the square valve chest and external dry pipes were fitted; the valve gear was still Stephenson. Can't say for sure without digging into files, but I doubt any of the three sold to the M&U were so equipped- I know 23 and 33 weren't.
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Re: L&HR 4-6-0 Camelbacks

Postby walterconklin » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:05 pm

Thank you Marty for your help.

Sincerely,
Walter

P.S. Do you have any images/maps of the Erie yard that use to exist at Goshen, NY? I am greatly in need of images and maps of the Erie trackage at Goshen for a modeling project.
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Re: L&HR 4-6-0 Camelbacks

Postby Paul Miller » Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:22 pm

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Re: L&HR 4-6-0 Camelbacks

Postby Marty Feldner » Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:59 pm

Thanks, Paul- That was going to be my first suggestion. I know they have all of Muller's 1903 Atlas of Orange County.

Also spend some time at the Library of Congress site, specifically the American Memory section. They have a few so-called 'bird's eye views' of Goshen, from the late 1800's showing the Erie trackage (and the Middletown-Goshen trolley line).
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Re: L&HR 4-6-0 Camelbacks

Postby Paul Miller » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:10 pm

Also,
any access you can get to NY Sanborn Fire Insurance maps-they are very detailed. Some colleges have them listed on line but you have to be a student or faculty member. I haven't yet run into a NY library that has them but I'm keeping my eyes open. Sounds like a great project Walter!
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Re: L&HR 4-6-0 Camelbacks

Postby walterconklin » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:05 pm

Hi Marty and Paul,

Thank so much for the helpful information you provided me.

On a personal note, I am a former resident of Mount Hope and Chester, NY. My grandfather owned Chester Lumber located along the former L&HR and later Conrail. My aunt and uncle currently own PDJ Trusses, started by my late grandfather. PDJ Trusess is located next to the former site of Chester Lumber. My interest in the L&HR and other regional railroads probably began watching my grandfather and dad unload boxcars with forklifts.

I have a B.A in history from The American University in Washington, D.C and am currently attending Millersville University outside of Lancaster, PA.

Sincerely,
Walter
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Re: L&HR 4-6-0 Camelbacks

Postby Mac Carter » Thu May 05, 2011 9:46 am

Here you go:

Image
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Re: L&HR 4-6-0 Camelbacks

Postby walterconklin » Sat May 07, 2011 4:26 pm

Hello,

My friend, who is creating the virtual model, asked me do I know what was the color of the roof as well as the following questions:

"Does anyone have a photo of the backhead of the boiler? Is there a footplate protruding from under the boiler for the fireman, or did he stand on the tender?"

I do not have any answers. Does anyone have any answers?

Thanks for your help.

Sincerely,
Walter
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Re: L&HR 4-6-0 Camelbacks

Postby RussNelson » Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:25 am

Marty Feldner wrote:Thanks, Paul- That was going to be my first suggestion. I know they have all of Muller's 1903 Atlas of Orange County.

Also spend some time at the Library of Congress site, specifically the American Memory section. They have a few so-called 'bird's eye views' of Goshen, from the late 1800's showing the Erie trackage (and the Middletown-Goshen trolley line).


Here's a modern photo of the Goshen Erie station merged with a 1920's shot of the Middletown-Goshen trolley. Both photos courtesy of Ray Kelly.
Image
Middletown-Goshen trolley by Russ Nelson, on Flickr
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