LV Apollos Through Tifft Street Yard??

Discussion related to the Lehigh Valley Railroad and predecessors for the period 1846-1976. Originally incorporated as the Delaware, Lehigh, Schuylkill and Susquehanna Railroad Company.

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Postby TB Diamond » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:48 pm

WNY: Should you care to email me I will forward the name and mailing address of the gent who had the LVRR track schematics (circa 1971) reproduced and who sold same at various rail shows in the northeast.
BTW: The L&LE Branch in its final format was two tracks from Tift Jct. to Clinton St. Int. Single tracK from that point to Ridge Int. and two tracks from that point on over to Tifft Yard. The Niagara Falls Branch was two tracks from Niagara Jct. to Tonawanda Jct. Zone E G.O. No. 822 dated March 31, 1965 effective 10:01 A.M. Tuesday April 6, 1965 shows track 2 Tonawanda Jct.-Niagara Jct. except for a short segment thereafter referred to as the Westinghouse industrial track as abandoned.
You can't go home again- Thomas Wolfe
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Postby WNYP431 » Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:21 pm

Thanks a great deal. I think I will get 'hold of you again...and it seems I still need to arrange for pictures of the Falls Road as well. Busy, busy, busy, my friend.....

Hogg
"Backwards words say to used I. Again go I there...sh*t oh."
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Postby bwparker1 » Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:30 pm

DElder wrote:Thanks also for the additional info on one of the authors of this article. I am continually grateful to all the folks that took the time and effort to document the last years of the LV, and that have shared that information with those of us that missed it all. (In my case, due to college during the mid-70s, and being quite distant from my home in central NY).

I always enjoy your interesting and informative posts..please keep 'em coming!

Doug Elder


DITTO.

Thanks to all who contribute to the Lehigh Valley's memory, especially for those of us born after the fact.
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Re: LV Apollos Through Tifft Street Yard??

Postby pumpers » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:53 pm

Giving this thread a bump -- as a follow-up to a recent thread on the New York Railfan section. How exactly did the Apollo freight express get to Nickel Plate (Norfolk & Western by then?) after the handoff on the LV main , which was more or less adjacent to Bison Yard (a 1970 freight schedule at the LV Modeller site says at Union Rd, a 1974 schedule says William St. I've seen a few on line pictures/references that say the handoff was on the LV main, not in Bison Yd.) I don't N&W took the train over the L&LE branch - the bridge in Lackawanna would take them over the Nickel Plate and heading up to LV TIfft yard, the wrong direction.

What I can't figure out is after the NY Throughway project through downtown in the 1950's, which wiped out the LV tracks, I don't see how the Apollo could get from the LV main adjacent to Bison, over to FW interlocking and then the Nickel Plate. There was no way out of the south/west end of the LV East Buffalo Yard, was there? Was there a connection up on the main to Bison Yard or the Erie if you were heading eastbound, without reverse moves, after the handoff? (Then you could take the Erie to FW) I can't find such a connection on historicaerials.com in 1966, however, only one heading into Bison if you are eastbound. Did they build one later (by 1970 for the Apollos)?

One of you probably knows... THanks , JS
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Re: LV Apollos Through Tifft Street Yard??

Postby lvrr325 » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:05 pm

LV Facilities In Color Vol. 3 has a shot of an Apollo EB in the NKP East Buffalo Yard, taken from the South Park Ave. Bridge, with the two drawbridges visible in the background as well as a DL&W bridge across the yard.

It says the NKP and PRR shared the tracks the train is using.

Now the shot above is a Westbound and the pic is also in LV In Color V1 or V2, taken from the I-190 overpass by the looks of it showing the train at the west end of Buffalo Jct. and passing under Seneca Street. I was able to locate this spot on Bing Maps fairly easily (the houses at left are the key).

Based on the 1955 diagram shown in the same Facilities book, the LV had yards to the south of the Erie/EL including one connection to the Erie near where the line into the 1955 passenger station was. I suspect there must have been another connection further west to allow these trains to run through, likely between William St. and Bailey Ave. -

They then went through Buffalo Jct. and onto the NKP, over the NKP drawbridge, and on westward.
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Re: LV Apollos Through Tifft Street Yard??

Postby pumpers » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:23 am

LVRR, I'm with you on this one. The PRR and Nickel Plate shared trackage and controlled the western drawbridge of the 2 next to each other. The Buffalo Creek RR controlled the other one. Just south of Buffalo Creek, the PRR/Nickel Plate 2 tracks crossed the BCRR 2 tracks at grade to run to the Nickel Plate Tifft Yard (towards the east side of the many tracks of many RR's running north/south just south of Buff. Crk., and then to Chicago. The LV Tifft Yard was on the westernmost side of all of these tracks, with the NYC mains just to the east, and then probably a few more before the Nickel Plate/PRR, so it was difficult if not impossible to run south (RR west) from LV Tifft to get on the Nickel plate to Chicago . So it makes sense that the Apollo's were on the Nickel Plate already north of the drawbridge , presumably getting on the Nickel Plate at its north end at FW interlocking (what you refer to as Buffalo Jct). The pictures you mention confirm it.
My question has been exactly where was that Erie connection, if it indeed existed, so that a westbound on the LV could cross over to the Erie to get to FW, perhaps in the William St area, without a reverse move... ? I haven't been able to find a map or aerial photo showing this connection.
Thanks, JS
Here is a good map link showing the different lines. FW is the six-way crossing just north of the 2 drawbridges. http://railsandtrails.com/Maps/Buffalo/BuffaloMap-100.jpg
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Re: LV Apollos Through Tifft Street Yard??

Postby lvrr325 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:03 am

Probably going to have to find someone with the valuation maps for that area to get a definitive answer. They do exist and sometimes you can buy copies -
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