ex-CNJ cab control cars

Discussion Related to the Reading Company 1833-1976 and it's predecessors Philadelphia and Reading Rail Road and then the Philadelphia and Reading Railway.

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Re: ex-CNJ cab control cars

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:27 pm

Although NJT operation began officially 1/1/83, the agency was created in 1979, replacing NJDOT's Rail Division. Bascially from 1980 on, NJT was de facto responsible for service (although service was operated by Conrail crews and facilities until 1983). NJ Transit logos appeared on rolling stock by mid 1980.
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Re: ex-CNJ cab control cars

Postby EDM5970 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:15 pm

The original cab car was converted from a 1300 that was modified, a few years earlier, to run mid-train in a set of RDCs. That trainset was unofficially called the 'Sputnik', so it must have been in the late '50s or early '60s.

I've often wondered how they lit that car, and in the winter, how it was heated. The Budds didn't have steam generators. Anyone have any more information?
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Re: ex-CNJ cab control cars

Postby ApproachMedium » Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:11 pm

I believe budd made it available to put budd coaches as trailers with RDCs. Id imagine that there is some kind of power connection, or one that could be made, between the RDC and another RDC or between one and a coach. Id imagine thats where its getting its power from if not an axle generator. The car could have been fitted with some kind of electric heating.
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Re: ex-CNJ cab control cars

Postby DutchRailnut » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:32 am

I don't know about here in US but in Europe older cars had their own closet size oil furnace and water loop. as long as there was battery power and fuel you had heat.
and no Budd never allowed a RDC to pull any car in regular service, it voided the warranty on the Allison torq converter/transmission.
on a RDC there was no outside connection for batteries just a control plug for other RDC about size of a tractor trailer electric connection, but not sufficient to feed another car.
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Re: ex-CNJ cab control cars

Postby EDM5970 » Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:48 am

I would discount the axle generator and battery system for lighting. All of the cars used in commuter service had been converted to an early system of head end lighting, even back in the steam era. (Picture an O-scale headlight generator sitting on the rear of the tender of an HO-scale 4-6-0 camelback; you get the picture-) The passenger diesels had head-end lighting generators as well.

An exception was the few air conditioned cars that were a leftover from the Blue Comet and other first class trains, which still had axle generators and batteries. (The 1300s were not air conditioned, though.) I believe they kept the A/C cars on some of the longer runs, which didn't have too frequent station stops, and kept them on battery chargers during the day and overnight.

My best educated guess is that they added a standard battery trainline receptacle inside the vestibule of the Budds, to match the trainline receptacle on the commuter coaches, which was already in use for the head end lighting. Each Budd had a pair of 10 kW 64 volt DC generators, so pulling a kW or so off a Budd for lighting the 1300 would not be out of the question.

Heat would be another story, though. 10 or 15 kW of electric heat would be a bit much for the Budds to provide, but using 64 volts to run a small oil burner sound feasable. Or did they just use this set during the warmer months? Someone who was around then must know-
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Re: ex-CNJ cab control cars

Postby DutchRailnut » Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:22 am

on a RDC the two 10 Kw generators were just about enough to charge batteries and run the appliaces on car.
If one Generator went down the AC and Air compressor would only run at 1/3 speed, making for slow charging of air.
the RDC was quite power hungry elecricaly with AC - Airco - ceiling fan - 4 cooling fans - lights - pumps for heat , etc.
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Re: ex-CNJ cab control cars

Postby keyboardkat » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:05 pm

These cars were homemade from existing 1300 series cars, weren't they? The railroad shops sealed off the end doorway, and installed a small steam radiator right in that location to heat the cab. The passenger exit side door on the engineer's side was also welded shut. The controller looked sort of like the controller on an old interurban, with the eight notches in a circle. Installed a brake valve, cab signal, and, voila, an operating cab for push-pull service. But it couldn't be used easily in the middle of a train because of that sealed passageway to the next car at the cab end.
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Re: ex-CNJ cab control cars

Postby DutchRailnut » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:32 pm

If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: ex-CNJ cab control cars

Postby EDM5970 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:25 pm

That photo is on the Green Mountain, post CNJ. Green Mountain may have put the train door back into 1317; I'll see if I can find out.
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Re: ex-CNJ cab control cars

Postby PVRX1 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:52 pm

Vermont Rail System / Green Mountain RR has two:

1317 (5150) - which is a fully functioning cab car
1319 (5151)
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Re: ex-CNJ cab control cars

Postby EDM5970 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:06 pm

Not to split hairs here, but I asked a friend up at Green Mountain about the 1317. Both 1317 and 1319 arrived at GMRC with the ends sealed, and both have been opened up and had train doors added for mid-train use. GMRC has plans to convert 1319 back into a cab car when time permits.
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Re: ex-CNJ cab control cars

Postby sjwhitney » Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:39 pm

Greetings folks...
My name is Scott J. Whitney and I am in charge of the passenger fleet at VT Rail System. Many of you realize that we have the largest share of ex-CNJ 1300 series cars. This includes TWO former cab cars. The car in the image behind the 1317 is the 1319. Controls were removed and bathrooms installed BUT the long range plan is to restore the controls again as we have more than just a small need to be able to reverse direction where there are no passing tracks. I do have a list in my work files of the dispositions of most of the cars today. There are at least two in NJ, four or five in PA, two in NH, two in KY (including one INTACT cab car; 1321, but not ever used in MU), and the rest here on VRS. Currently we have the following: 1301, (negotiating for 1304), 1305, 1306, 1312, 1313, 1314 (OOS), 1317 (cab operational), 1319 (cab not currently operational), 1323. On our two cabs, we cut the welded in panels out of the ends and restored walk through including an end door on the 1317 and replacement buffers on both cars. The boile tube pilot is most assuredly a DL&W item.
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Re: ex-CNJ cab control cars

Postby sjwhitney » Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:49 pm

Regarding the controls in the 1300's, the controller is what was commonly used as a hostler controller for B-units. You can find it in the EMD parts books. The 26 brake stand is also pretty simple and the independent is simply used to apply the brakes on the cab car to hold it in place when the train is released. A handful of breakers and switches for lighting, sand, alarm bell, etc make up the rest. One thing I can say for sure was that it must have been a real union crew that designed the wiring setup! I litterally took a wheelbarrow load of non-required wiring out of the cab that was used to jump back and forth from low-voltage indicator lamps and the resisters to feed them. It was a simple matter to substitute 72V bulbs and make the rats nest vanish....
Lastly, as I understand it, the C&NW was the first to introduce the cab car concept with CNJ soon following. I find it a pleasure to operate (which I do almost all summer/fall) and it makes for swift reversals.
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Re: ex-CNJ cab control cars

Postby 56-57 » Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:28 pm

The R&N does have four of them, not cab cars, just coaches, from the RTI fleet.

These are the 1300 (being converted into a 2nd open-air car), 1307, 1309, and 1316.. None currently in service.

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Re: ex-CNJ cab control cars

Postby sjwhitney » Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:17 pm

Folks, below is the list of the 1300's and their current dispositions as of about a year ago. Does anyone have the exact numbers of the cars that were indeed cab cars? We know of 1317, 1319, 1320, and 1321. Cars indicated to have gone to IND rail with no further data; some of these may have wound up on Ohio Central.

Car #___Date Sold__Price($)____Current Location_____ Additional Notes
1300_____05/84____3175______Jim Thorpe, PA______ To George Hart. Out of service, wheels.
1301_____09/84____1307______Vermont Rail System__To Winnipesaukee RR. Sold to GMRC 06/01. In service, converted to table car.
1302_____05/84____1750______?__________________ To IND Rail.
1303_____05/84____2676______Stewartstown, PA____ To George Hart. Currently off trucks, out of service.
1304_____05/84____2619______Bartlett, NH_________ To CSRR. Out of service, never restored. Slated for GMRC.
1305_____05/84____3500______Vermont Rail System__To GMRC. In service.
1306_____05/84____3500______Vermont Rail System__To GMRC. In service.
1307_____05/84____2880______Jim Thorpe, PA______ To George Hart. Out of service, wheels.
1308_____09/84____2679______North Conway, NH____ To CSRR. In service. Modified into open-air car by removal of every other widow post.
1309_____05/84____2927______Jim Thorpe, PA______ To George Hart. Out of service, wheels.
1310_____05/84____1750______Versailles, KY________ To IND Rail. Then to Bluegrass RR Museum. In service.
1311_____05/84____1750______?__________________ To IND Rail.
1312_____05/84____3500______Vermont Rail System__To GMRC. In service, converted to table car.
1313_____05/84____3500______Vermont Rail System__To GMRC. In service, vestibule toilets added.
1314_____05/84____2300______Vermont Rail System__To Winnipesaukee RR. Sold to GMRC 06/01. Out of service, for parts.
1315_____05/84____1750______?__________________ To IND Rail.
1316_____05/84____2575______Jim Thorpe, PA______ To George Hart. Out of service, wheels.
1317 (cab) 09/84____3550______Vermont Rail System__To GMRC. In service, cab functional.
1318_____05/84____3100______Lambertville, NJ_____ Out of service, parts missing, bad condition. Parts to GMRC; body to be classroom.
1319 (cab) 09/84____1755______Vermont Rail System__To GMRC. In service, cab removed, vestibule toilets added. Cab to be restored.
1320 (cab) ?________1750______Versailles, KY________ To IND Rail. Then to Bluegrass RR Museum. In service. Cab appears intact.
1321 (cab) ?________?__________?__________________ Fate unknown.
1322_____09/84____885_______?__________________ To scrap dealer. Presumed scrapped.
1323_____05/84____4800______Vermont Rail System__ Bought by Vermont Railway and converted to observation car. To GMRC upon merger.
1324_____?________?__________Holland, NJ_________ Out of service, never restored, poor condition but most external parts intact. Slated for GMRC.
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