New Haven Belle Dock

Topics relating to the operation of the P&W Railroad, which is a subsidiary of Genesee and Wyoming. Regional freight railroad based in Worcester and operating in Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut and New York.
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New Haven Belle Dock

Postby NNR » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:47 pm

Does any one know what is going on with the Belle Dock Northern Rail Services was rebuilding the line in to it They tamped it then that was it? All the switches are in but not connected there is still a loco that is landlocked ready to come out!
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Re: New Haven Belle Dock

Postby edbac333 » Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:25 pm

The project is expected to continue and one of the final phases is supposed to be to run new rail to all the facilities on the west side of Waterfront St.(ie,Gateway Terminal,Logistec etc.) and that landlocked 44 tonner should be free to run the rails once more.The timing of this I am not certain as the dates keep changing.
I work at the power plant at the end of Waterfront St and they keep telling us that they are going to build a new gate for us to enter on Connecticut Ave and Waterfront St will become a private road off limits to facilitate the construction and use of rails on Waterfront St.I have been hearing this for many years however. I believe Kitn1mcc works at the United Illuminating part of this complex and maybe he heard something?
Providence and Worcester railroad has taken steel coil delivery from the docks and shipped them twice from these tracks.Once about 9 weeks ago and once a couple years ago.
Hopefully one day these rails will reach their full potential and when more activity happens I will start to post it here as it appears there may be some interest.
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Re: New Haven Belle Dock

Postby fsdemasi » Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:09 am

Hi all,

I visited Belle Dock on Sunday 22 June and took some photos. I wonder why P&W has not rehabbed the last 1000 feet of track leading to the new bridge after all the track into the dock area has been replaced with new rail and ties. The sharp curve is in awful condition while most of the rest of track north of the bridge is fairly good condition. The photos are the stranded loco, new ramp, curve leading to new bridge, last active customer north of Belle Dock area. As soon as I figure out how to post photos I will do so! See White Paper on Legislative issues that stopped project going into privately owned properties along the track into the port area at:
http://www.cityofnewhaven.com/PortAutho ... er6-15.pdf

Frank DeMasi
Frank D...
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Re: New Haven Belle Dock

Postby edbac333 » Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:12 pm

Since that white paper was written the money has been approved.I am sure of that,just not the timing of the work.The sanitary and storm sewer roadwork mentioned in it is ongoing,I'm sure you saw the road conditions and the detour!
Maybe the part of the existing track on the west side of the bridge can be improved if the State offers to pay for it?
Connecticut is better noted for studies and papers than action!!
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Re: New Haven Belle Dock

Postby crij » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:15 pm

As for the 44 tonner landlocked in the power plant, actually she is a side rod 45 tonner built in March of 1943, she will never feel the new Bell Dock rails between her flanges.

This is because in a month or two she will be moved over the road to the Connecticut Eastern RR Museum in Willimantic. Her couplers, exhaust stacks and spare traction motors & axles are already in Willimantic.

Rich Cizik
MoW Foreman
Blacksmith Shop Co-Head
Ct Eastern RR Museum
Willimantic, Ct 06226
http://www.cteastrrmuseum.org
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Re: New Haven Belle Dock

Postby NNR » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:58 pm

That's to bad I have waited to see her working the dock again. When is it going to be crained out? Hopefully it will run up there.
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Re: New Haven Belle Dock

Postby crij » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:03 am

Not sure of the date, but no crane will be involved last I heard. She will be winched onto a beam trailer.

Rich C.
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Re: New Haven Belle Dock

Postby NNR » Fri May 29, 2009 9:09 pm

Does anyone know if the belle dock will be cut off because of the new Q-bridge the new yard was never finished any info?
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Re: New Haven Belle Dock

Postby bwparker1 » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:58 am

Maybe an up date on this project?

"So the city of New Haven spent $7.6 mill and built track to the property line of everyone on Waterfront Street whether they wanted it or not. Brand new everything, 136 lb rail and Century concrete crossings. All this rail was rolled in March 2014 and has never been used. Last week Sperry came and tested all of it."
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Re: New Haven Belle Dock

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am

bwparker1 wrote:Maybe an up date on this project?

"So the city of New Haven spent $7.6 mill and built track to the property line of everyone on Waterfront Street whether they wanted it or not. Brand new everything, 136 lb rail and Century concrete crossings. All this rail was rolled in March 2014 and has never been used. Last week Sperry came and tested all of it."


P&W is eager to generate some new biz here. How much they'll succeed at drawing, who knows. These small ports like Belle, New London, Fall River, New Bedford, Providence, and South Boston never have as much multimodal value as the states pouring money into them hope they'll have, since economy of scale favors massive ports and rail traffic that goes to massive transloads (Ayer, Worcester, etc.). But since Southern New England doesn't have any big port facilities bringing in reliable revenue (excepting very narrowly-focused niche sites like Davisville or Boston Autoport), they're stuck trying to diversify what they have even when that requires an overpay on capital investment.

That said, P&W sees enough upside here within its margins to give it a full-court press. I would expect at least one anchor customer with reliable traffic to get signed on before too long, and maybe they get lucky enough to get a small collection and enough biz for a daily/near-daily jog tacked on to their normal Cedar Hill stopover.
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Re: New Haven Belle Dock

Postby bwparker1 » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:18 am

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:
bwparker1 wrote:Maybe an up date on this project?

"So the city of New Haven spent $7.6 mill and built track to the property line of everyone on Waterfront Street whether they wanted it or not. Brand new everything, 136 lb rail and Century concrete crossings. All this rail was rolled in March 2014 and has never been used. Last week Sperry came and tested all of it."


P&W is eager to generate some new biz here. How much they'll succeed at drawing, who knows. These small ports like Belle, New London, Fall River, New Bedford, Providence, and South Boston never have as much multimodal value as the states pouring money into them hope they'll have, since economy of scale favors massive ports and rail traffic that goes to massive transloads (Ayer, Worcester, etc.). But since Southern New England doesn't have any big port facilities bringing in reliable revenue (excepting very narrowly-focused niche sites like Davisville or Boston Autoport), they're stuck trying to diversify what they have even when that requires an overpay on capital investment.

That said, P&W sees enough upside here within its margins to give it a full-court press. I would expect at least one anchor customer with reliable traffic to get signed on before too long, and maybe they get lucky enough to get a small collection and enough biz for a daily/near-daily jog tacked on to their normal Cedar Hill stopover.


Thanks for the info... Just curious, why is it the P&WRR and not CSX providing service to Belle Dock? CSX operations in Connecticut puzzle me sometimes. I know they have certain rights and certain areas with Cedar Hill inherited from the Conrail operation. Also, I think they may serve the lumber yard in Darien CT with a local. Do they rely on CSOR to move bridge traffic to them between the CSX main line in West Springfield, MA and New Haven? If not, why don't they run their own "road trains" over the Springfield line? It just seems like it is an isolated CSX operation down in New Haven, with no official CSX trains in or out of the area.
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Re: New Haven Belle Dock

Postby boatsmate » Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:35 pm

The whole thing is confusing, as to who can move what and where, the old Conrail agreement (which as I understand it controls who can inter change with who) controls the New Haven Yard interchange. I do know that the P&W when they where hauling from Murphy road In Portland had to take the trains to Hartford to interchange with CSOR because of this agreement. They did interchange in New Haven for a little while but that was because of a major wash out on the Harford branch that put the line oos for a while. P&W is not allowed to interchange with CSOR in New Haven, nor are they allowed to inter change with CSX, that has to be done in Worcester and Springfield. that's why P&W runs its own trains to and from New Haven. as to where P&W,CSOR and CSX run, they are lines that where sold off over the years by conrail to P&W.

I maybe not be exactly correct on my information, but that is the jest of it . like I said it is very confusing
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Re: New Haven Belle Dock

Postby TomNelligan » Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:02 pm

bwparker1 wrote:Do they rely on CSOR to move bridge traffic to them between the CSX main line in West Springfield, MA and New Haven? If not, why don't they run their own "road trains" over the Springfield line? It just seems like it is an isolated CSX operation down in New Haven, with no official CSX trains in or out of the area.


Yes, Connecticut Southern handles the through traffic between West Springfield and Cedar Hill, and the Conrail/CSX terminal operation in New Haven has been an isolated island for a couple decades now. I have to presume that CSX makes money off their Cedar Hill business since otherwise they (or Conrail before them) wouldn't have kept it when the Shore Line East freight was spun off to P&W. CSX serves the two surviving freight customers at Mamaroneck and Darien out of Oak Point, and runs no through freights between Oak Point and Cedar Hill. Customers in West Haven and thereabouts are handled by a Cedar Hill crew. P&W got the Belle Dock line from Conrail, ran down there before all the construction mess began, and will serve any future customers that appear in the harbor neighborhood.
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Re: New Haven Belle Dock

Postby bwparker1 » Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:20 pm

TomNelligan wrote:Yes, Connecticut Southern handles the through traffic between West Springfield and Cedar Hill, and the Conrail/CSX terminal operation in New Haven has been an isolated island for a couple decades now. I have to presume that CSX makes money off their Cedar Hill business since otherwise they (or Conrail before them) wouldn't have kept it when the Shore Line East freight was spun off to P&W. CSX serves the two surviving freight customers at Mamaroneck and Darien out of Oak Point, and runs no through freights between Oak Point and Cedar Hill. Customers in West Haven and thereabouts are handled by a Cedar Hill crew. P&W got the Belle Dock line from Conrail, ran down there before all the construction mess began, and will serve any future customers that appear in the harbor neighborhood.


Thank you Tom and boatsmate. Everything more or less makes sense now, although I guess I don't understand the building of this new branch to the dock by the City of New Haven, or was there an old spur before that was ripped out at some point? From Aerial imagery, there seems to be quite a bite of track down along there, and clearly all of the track is not new, but my contact sent me a photo of a brand new track that terminated at a gate fence, encased in a concrete crossing, which is high $$$$.
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Re: New Haven Belle Dock

Postby DutchRailnut » Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:36 pm

its replacement, but took 25 years to build, sadly there is no more use for it.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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