Looking for an Railroad that had a J C initial.

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Looking for an Railroad that had a J C initial.

Postby snabowne » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:46 am

Hi, I have a sugar and creamer from a railroad dining car and I can't figure out which rail it must have been. It has monogrammed JCRR on both pieces and they are the thick plating common with railroad dining pieces and are made by Reed & Barton. They look like they could be as old as 1900 or a bit before. I have been trying to figure out which railroad they came from, but I can't figure it out. Any ideas?
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Re: Looking for an Railroad that had a J C initial.

Postby JimBoylan » Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:58 am

Did the Central Railroad Company of New Jersey ever call themselves the "Jersey Central RailRoad?
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Re: Looking for an Railroad that had a J C initial.

Postby 3rdrail » Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:25 pm

I know that the Central of New Jersey's reporting marks were CNJ...however, they were also known as the "Jersey Central Lines" as depicted on their beautiful Lady Liberty logo. I can think of no other American RR which would have those initials. I'd say it was the "Jersey Central".
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Re: Looking for an Railroad that had a J C initial.

Postby Aa3rt » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:33 pm

Gentlemen, this one is a bit of a puzzler. However, before we make the assumption that it was the Jersey Central where these items originated from, keep in mind that the original poster noted they could possibly be over 100 years old. There were many smaller railroads and even some interurban lines that offered dining car service in those years when rail travel was the norm.

Aside from "Central" what other word used in railway names started with the letter "C"? City comes to mind-anything else?

While Jersey Central is the most obvious choice, I'd love to come across a list of railroad reporting marks from the 1890-1910 time frame (I've already tried the ol' "Google" search-everything I've found is of a current vintage.) and see what other possibilities there are.

Perhaps the original poster could supply his (Her?) geographic location-while I realize that dining car items can travel far from their origin as they pass through the hands of collectors, that may be a start.

I'll check an old Official Guide of the Railways when I get home and see if I can come up with something else.
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Re: Looking for an Railroad that had a J C initial.

Postby 3rdrail » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:05 am

The only kicker there Art that I would think would almost eliminate traction is the RR designation. I went to my Gross book and the only listed JC RR (Co) nationwide was the Jackson City Railroad Company in Mississippi. I may be wrong, but I picture that one as more of a horse drawn trolley situation than an interurban with dining facilities. As you know, most electric railways used the designation Railway or Ry abbreviated. With all due respect, the items may be slightly less than 110 years old, and could even be table ware from the famous Blue Comet. Snabowne- are there any logo shapes on either item ? That might pin it down.
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Re: Looking for an Railroad that had a J C initial.

Postby 3rdrail » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:17 am

Grab hold of this Art. I've used it a couple of times. It isn't fool proof, but he does have a fairly large initial data base.
http://www.railroadiana.org/pgRRNames.php (JCRR comes up empty.)
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Re: Looking for an Railroad that had a J C initial.

Postby Aa3rt » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:19 am

3rdrail wrote:The only kicker there Art that I would think would almost eliminate traction is the RR designation. I went to my Gross book and the only JC RR (Co) nationwide was the Jackson City Railroad Company in Mississippi. I may be wrong, but I picture that one as more of a horse drawn trolley situation than an interurban with dining facilities. As you know, most electric railways used the designation Railway or Ry abbreviated. With all due respect, the items may be slightly less than 110 years old, and could even be Blue Comet table ware.


I agree with you Paul, and Jersey Central is the most obvious and logical choice. Since we really don't know the age of the china, what it looks like, or even have an idea of the color I was merely suggesting that we keep an open mind before jumping to conclusions.

After my initial post I tried doing a Google search on "dining car china" but came up empty in regards to finding any examples from the Jersey Central.

This aspect of railroadiana (dining car china) is one I know very little about.
Last edited by Aa3rt on Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Looking for an Railroad that had a J C initial.

Postby 3rdrail » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:20 am

Yeah, it's definitely a specialty within the hobby. I know nothing about it, myself. But, I can recognize logos. Maybe we can get a photo ?
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Re: Looking for an Railroad that had a J C initial.

Postby Aa3rt » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:22 am

3rdrail wrote:Grab hold of this Art. I've used it a couple of times. It isn't fool proof, but he does have a fairly large initial data base.
http://www.railroadiana.org/pgRRNames.php (JCRR comes up empty.)


Great link Paul, thanks!
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Re: Looking for an Railroad that had a J C initial.

Postby 3rdrail » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:21 pm

Your welcome, Art. My pleasure ! Another indicator is where did Snabowne come into possession of these items ? Were they found at a sale or have they been in his family for years, and in either case, where would that be ? New Jersey ? Like many, Snabowne doesn't indicate where he is from. Of course, this kind of an indicator is by no means "the smoking gun", but with enough of them, you can get a pretty good idea of a particular item's pedigree.
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Re: Looking for an Railroad that had a J C initial.

Postby eddiebehr » Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:59 pm

Maybe you ought to check out some china collector sites that might deal with Reed & Barton items.
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Re: Looking for an Railroad that had a J C initial.

Postby snabowne » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:56 am

My apologies for the delay. I have been out all last week and was not able to check the internet. I have posted some pictures below of the pieces.
Thank you so much,
Abigail Bowne
Attachments
RR22810_abga5.jpg
They are on the large size.
RR22810_abga5.jpg (125.87 KiB) Viewed 5073 times
RR22810_abga3.jpg
Here's a picture of the monograms.
RR22810_abga3.jpg (181.83 KiB) Viewed 5073 times
RR22810_abga1.jpg
The bottom reads J.C.R.R.
RR22810_abga1.jpg (98.63 KiB) Viewed 5073 times
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Re: Looking for an Railroad that had a J C initial.

Postby snabowne » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:57 am

Oh, and we bought them in New England.
Thanks, Abigail
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Re: Looking for an Railroad that had a J C initial.

Postby Eliphaz » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:25 am

for what its worth, Reed and Barton is still in business, in Taunton, MA.
maybe they have an historian, or and interest in old pieces.
800-343-1383
(508) 802-9042
https://www.reedandbarton.com/site/cont ... =0:172:174

edit to add: one more google nugget
might that be an "I" and no a "J", someone besides me thinks so -
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/i ... er-creamer

and here's a similar one marked NYC advertised for $70
http://www.sonic.net/~jayreed/NYCsilvRBcreamer3792.jpg
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Re: Looking for an Railroad that had a J C initial.

Postby 3rdrail » Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:59 am

I'm going with Eliphaz's friend - "I C R R". The logo's "I" has a two-hooked base on both sides, as does the head. A "J's" base would most likely be either totally or predominantly hooked to the left. The first letter on the bottom of the piece is probably a scripted "I" also. (A picture is worth a thousand words.)

"Riding on the City of New Orleans,
Illinois Central Monday morning rail
Fifteen cars and fifteen restless riders,
Three conductors and twenty-five sacks of mail."


That would be my guess, but there's a bunch of I C R R's - Illinois Central, Idaho Central, Indiana Central, Inter-California, Interstate Consolidated, Iowa Central, Island Creek...

That's a very old logo. First thing that I'd do is bone up on these roads, especially Illinois Central, and see if you can find that logo (probably over 100 years ago). Good luck !
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