Italian motors

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Re: Italian motors

Postby Benny » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:13 am

With the growth of high speed lines, in the second half of the 80s FS was in need of a fast and powerful locomotive for the heavy Inter City trains, also because with 200 km/h heavy trains E 444 demonstrated to be at the limit of its performance, so a new state of the art project was designed. E 402 (that later became E 402A) is a four axle loco with an hourly rating of 6000 kW and a max. speed of 220 km/h (137 mph) powered by four asynchronous three-phase motors through electronic converters.
As FS and Italian industry had not experience in modern three-phase drive, were built a testbed and five prototypes, with a different aesthetic, that showed various electronic problems but a good mechanical behavior, so were ordered 40 series units that entered service around the half of the 90s principally at the head of heavy fast trains, sometimes in push-pull mode too. After sectorization they were assigned to the passenger division and followed on with the same work but a non perfect reliability, the arrival of other classes and the progressive use of the red, silver and white "arrows" for long distance services made E 402A surplus and some months ago began their rebuilding as single cab locos with a new electric and electronic scheme. The future of the class will be likely with push-pull express and medium distance trains.

Prototype E 402A.004 with an Euro City from Switzerland transit in Lesa, on the Simplon line , in 2003. Photo by S. Paolini courtesy of Photorail
402004-090703meina.jpg


E 402A.035 passes under the characteristic A switching cabin of Milano Centrale station in 2003. Photo by S. Paolini courtesy of Photorail
402035-090203milanocle.jpg


E 402A.023 at the head of a sporadic train from Slovakia to Florence near Castelfranco Veneto in 2011. Photo by M. Cantini
10 E 402.023 cfv-csp.jpg


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Re: Italian motors

Postby NorthWest » Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:06 pm

Benny wrote: After sectorization they were assigned to the passenger division and followed on with the same work but a non perfect reliability, the arrival of other classes and the progressive use of the red, silver and white "arrows" for long distance services made E 402A surplus and some months ago began their rebuilding as single cab locos with a new electric and electronic scheme. The future of the class will be likely with push-pull express and medium distance trains.

Ciao :wink:

I think this is a real shame. They were perfectly fine as they were, and the loss of flexibility with only one cab makes little sense. CAF appears to be making an ugly mess out of them if the cell phone grab shots seen elsewhere are any indication. They have more than enough E.464, anyway.
:(
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Re: Italian motors

Postby Benny » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:54 pm

At the end of the 90s another class came to the light. E 402B maintain the same mechanical scheme of E 402A but is a bi-current locomotive that can be used under 3000 V DC (the FS standard) and under 25000 V (new Italian high speed lines and parts of France) and its electronics are water cooled. Maximum speed is 200 km/h (125 mph) and the hourly rating is 6000 kW. Aesthetic too is different. Easy to understand it's a very different machine but, for some stupid reason, it has been classified as E 402B, as it could be a follow on of the former class.
The class was purposed for "universal" use but the only real attempt to employ E 402Bs in freight services has been the try to have direct trains between France and Italy across the Frejus line without changing traction units, ridiculously aborted because the locos, on the French lines wired at 1500 V DC, can only develop half of the power and on the Maurienne incline, with two locos double heading and a third one pushing on the rear, they simply have not enough traction power.
Now the entire class (80 locomotives) is allocated to the passenger division and their main use is the traction of long distance rakes, in push-pull mode too; their AC capacity is useful for services partly using high speed lines.

E 402B.162 is leaving Venice at the head of a night train to the south in 2011
7 E 402.162 Venezia.jpg


E 402.114 pulling a Thello Milan to Marselle train on the Giovi Line in 2016. Thello is a joint venture between Trenitalia (FS) and a French company.
17 E 402.114 Pietrabissara-Isola del Cantone.jpg


The two photos by M. Cantini

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Re: Italian motors

Postby Benny » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:14 pm

After completion of E 402B class, builder Ansaldobreda studied a variant of the same locomotive and so came to the light E 402C, that later became E 403.
Born in the first half of 2000s for the Cargo division, they differ from the formers only in trucks, a lower maximum speed (180 km/h) and some electronic components but this bring to enormous problems in traction control and safety devices, not completely solved, and made the entire class (24 units) being stopped various times.
Now E 403 have been ceded to the passenger division and share work with sisters E 402B but are still not completely reliable.

E 403/004 has been shooted last month on the Giovi line at the head of an Inter City train to Turin. Photo by M. Cantini
16 E 403.004 Pietrabissara-Isola del Cantone.jpg


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Re: Italian motors

Postby philipmartin » Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:52 am

Nice looking engine. Too bad that FS has to design these engines itself, with the consequent problems. There are so many perfectly good ones on the market these days. My employer simply bought Bombardiers and missed all the headaches.
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Re: Italian motors

Postby george matthews » Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:27 am

What do you mean by "has to"?

Under EU regulations they can and perhaps must put that sort of order open to tender throughout the EU.
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Re: Italian motors

Postby Benny » Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:21 pm

Until some years ago each European railway company projected their proper locomotives, sometimes in cooperation with national industries, theoretically tailoring them as they needed. There were not standard models as in US market; these ones came only with the arrival of Bombardier in Europe and the opening of railways that revolutioned the market.
I don't know very much about UE rules implementation but in Italy often rolling stock was ordered more for political reasons, to give work or to experience some firms (as in case of E 402s for Ansaldobreda), than for a real need of that kind of units.
Only in the last years have been made European tenders for stock supply and in some cases I heard of "direct order" and "restricted process" but frankly I've not the knowledge to tell if this is correct or not.

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Re: Italian motors

Postby philipmartin » Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:32 pm

Thank you for the information, Benny.
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Re: Italian motors

Postby philipmartin » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:14 am

george matthews wrote:
Under EU regulations they can and perhaps must put that sort of order open to tender throughout the EU.

Interesting.
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Re: Italian motors

Postby johnthefireman » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:22 am

I'm not well up on the details but there are many examples of common standards being set throughout the EU to allow inter-operability of rolling stock and systems. The European Rail Traffic Management System (ERTMS) is an obvious example, which includes signalling and communications kit. Common standards for loading gauges on certain international routes is another example.

While Britain's dysfunctional privatised railway system has allowed many EU countries to buy into Britain's passenger franchises, British companies seem to have done OK venturing into the Europe-wide goods market, including provision of locomotives to other countries.
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Re: Italian motors

Postby philipmartin » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:05 pm

johnthefireman wrote:
While Britain's dysfunctional privatised railway system has allowed many EU countries to buy into Britain's passenger franchises, British companies seem to have done OK venturing into the Europe-wide goods market, including provision of locomotives to other countries.

That's interesting too.
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Re: Italian motors

Postby Benny » Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:17 pm

My computer is ko. I've to wait the repair to follow on, sorry.

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Re: Italian motors

Postby Benny » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:07 am

Ok, solutioned.

In the first half of the 90s, before the UE rules about sectorization in railways, the common idea of European operators in locomotives field was to have a "universal unit" that can pull an heavy freight train just after a 200 km/h express one and, more, thanks to electronics there were the first attempts for a modern multi-current loco to cross the wiring barriers.
With this spirit FS ordered to ADtranz (that later has been absorbed by Bombardier) a 200 km/h 6000 kW hourly locomotive to be used under 3000 V DC and 15000 V single phase. The 20 class E 412 locomotives were built in the Vado Ligure plant (another political reason) and finally resulted good horses but, apart testing, have never been used outside Italy and their high speed capacity is unutilized because from the beginning they were used mainly with freight services on the southern part of the Brenner route, probably because of the lack of clearance in the other countries.
After rolling stock division E 412s belonged to Cargo sector and now have their operations area extended to North-eastern Italy.

E412.020 and two more sisters (third one dead in train) lead one of the numerous intermodal trains on the Brenner route in june 2016.
8 E 412.020 Peri-Borghetto.jpg


E 412.001 and another one run on the side of the Val d'Adige vineyards in 2013
8 E 412.001 dolce-peri 18-5-13.jpg


Photos courtesy of M. Cantini

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Last edited by Benny on Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Italian motors

Postby Benny » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:20 am

Around 1997 PKP, the incumbent polish railways operator, ordered to ADtranz a lot of locomotives that were partly very similar to FS E 412 and partly a DC version of the latter, to be built in Poland. After some months PKP realized that it cannot pay for the locos but various units had been assembled so Bombardier, meanwhile succeeded to ADtranz, looked for new buyers. After some modifications (E. G. the driving desk was displaced from the right to the left side of the cabs) the eight bi-current locomotives were bought by Rail Traction Company (RTC, one of the first Italian open access freight operators) that maintained the Polish classification as EU 43, and the remnant 42 straight DC units were bought by FS, probably under pressure by lobbies, and became class E 405. Also these locos are assigned to the Cargo sector and their career and services are shared with sister class E 412. The two classes are appreciated for the good starting effort, particularly on the Brenner slopes.

E 405.033 with a train of household appliances to northern Europe has been shooted near Castelfranco Veneto in june this year.
1 E 405.033 cfv-sml.jpg


E.405.025 and a sister pull a trailers train on the Brenner slopes in march 2012.
13 E 405.025 Mules.jpg


The two images thanks to my fellow Marco Cantini

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Re: Italian motors

Postby philipmartin » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:43 am

Your computer seems to be doing pretty well inspite of the KO. :wink: Is that the Brenner Pass behind the the 412-020? I'm a scenery nut. Thank you, Benny.
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