Salzburg; "Rooms With A View"

Discussion about railroad topics everywhere outside of North America.

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Re: Salzburg; "Rooms With A View"

Postby philipmartin » Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:59 pm

The Mariazell Railway is an electrically operated narrow-gauge railway which connects the Lower Austrian capital Sankt Pölten with the Styrian pilgrimage centre of Mariazell. Wikipedia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBzz_gQ_i0I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VdZx86SIDA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpskV2yJdjk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbRvCmSsBqA
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Re: Salzburg; "Rooms With A View"

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:02 am

From Little America (or from a shopping center at the Hbf where every American fast food outlet seems to be) Don Giovanni is tonight, but it is sold. Also tomorrow is The Longest Day I.e. coming home.
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Re: Salzburg; "Rooms With A View"

Postby philipmartin » Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:19 am

Gilbert B Norman wrote:From Little America (or from a shopping center at the Hbf where every American fast food outlet seems to be) Don Giovanni is tonight, but it is sold. Also tomorrow is The Longest Day I.e. coming home.


Thanks for the update.
Too bad Mozart didn't write railroad operas: "The Magic Boxcar" or "The Abduction from the Roundhouse," for instance.
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Re: Salzburg; "Rooms With A View"

Postby george matthews » Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:12 am

philipmartin wrote:
george matthews wrote: I would ask why the US has so few electrically powered freight lines

There are no electrified freight railroads in North America. Diesels are more cost effective.

But more dangerous to the world environment. They need to be phased out and replaced by electric power.
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Re: Salzburg; "Rooms With A View"

Postby philipmartin » Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:09 pm

george matthews wrote: [Diesels are] more dangerous to the world environment. They need to be phased out and replaced by electric power.


George- I understand otherwise, but who would have the money to string catenary all over the North American continent? Not even our banker, China, has enough money for that.

I hope you liked my pictures of Jenbach and Zell am See. I enjoy them. Thanks for the suggestions, and thanks to Gijs NS3737 for suggesting the Mariazeller Bahn.
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Re: Salzburg; "Rooms With A View"

Postby David Benton » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:20 pm

Gilbert B Norman wrote:From Little America (or from a shopping center at the Hbf where every American fast food outlet seems to be) Don Giovanni is tonight, but it is sold. Also tomorrow is The Longest Day I.e. coming home.

Safe trip home, Mr Norman.
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Re: Salzburg; "Rooms With A View"

Postby george matthews » Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:39 pm

philipmartin wrote:
george matthews wrote: [Diesels are] more dangerous to the world environment. They need to be phased out and replaced by electric power.


George- I understand otherwise, but who would have the money to string catenary all over the North American continent? Not even our banker, China, has enough money for that.

I hope you liked my pictures of Jenbach and Zell am See. I enjoy them. Thanks for the suggestions, and thanks to Gijs NS3737 for suggesting the Mariazeller Bahn.

Note that Russia has electrified the entire Trans-Siberian. The US has allowed itself to become a slave to the use of oil, but a wider study of the science shows that oil should be left in the ground with the coal, to prevent the climate getting out of hand.
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Re: Salzburg; "Rooms With A View"

Postby johnthefireman » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:13 am

Depending on how exactly one defines Europe it has a rail network about three quarters the size of the USA and serves a slightly larger population base than the USA, and much of the European network is electrified. Russia and China, with rail networks each about one third that of the USA but with very long distant routes have also pursued electrification. It's not impossible, but it needs a focus on long term savings (including environmental sustainability) rather than short-term profits.
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Re: Salzburg; "Rooms With A View"

Postby David Benton » Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:21 am

I believe BNSF has seriously considered electrification in recent years. It may have been sidetracked by cheap natural gas lately, which is in the development stage.
I think it would be fair to say that most electrification in Western Europe has been mainly for the benefit of passenger trains, not freight trains, which sometimes use diesel locos under the wires.
What I really don't get is some Northeast USA commuter lines planning to replace Electrics with Diesels. Apparently this has to do with how much Amtrak charges them for electricity, though there are other benefits to electric than cost of fuel alone.
I would have thought lines such as the Cajon Pass would be good candidates for Electrification , though I read Southern Califonia is facing a shortage of electricity generation.
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Re: Salzburg; "Rooms With A View"

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:35 am

From Lufthansa Business Class Lounge MUC/EDDM

Lufthansa lets United Business Class passengers use their Lounge here. So serene compared with the zoo outside.

An interesting comment by I think Mr
Martin. Russia likely made the Trans Siberian electric before they became Czar Vladimir's gas station.

Now that North America has become oil rich, the likelihood of any USA electrification for handling freight is indeed slim.The only possible US electrification is a high volume passenger line that will involve public funds.
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Re: Salzburg; "Rooms With A View"

Postby philipmartin » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:42 am

george matthews wrote:Note that Russia has electrified the entire Trans-Siberian.

There is no thought of that happening in North America, except that David mentions the BNSF was considering it, which I wasn't aware of. The freight railroads here being private, operate within the constraints of economic reality, or go out of business. CO2 emissions is not in the equation.
Our big electrification here was built by the PRR between New York and Washington and Harrisburg 100 years ago, with government financial aid. It's a four track, first class railroad, but even the Pennsy wasn't able to extend it further. These days the government owns the line (Amtrak) and freight, except for locals, is routed to other lines.
David mentions something else that I wasn't aware of: that "some Northeast USA commuter lines planning to replace Electrics with Diesels." I can't imagine what company that might be. I work for the New Jersey commuter entity, and the most glaring reasons for us to use electric locomotives and MUs is because they are required to go through the tunnels into New York, and also because we have electrified lines off Amtrak. For the last two years NJ Transit has been successfully using ALP45dp locomotives that run on either the AC overhead or Caterpillar diesels. They don't use them to save Amtrak's bill; they frequently run pantograph up on Amtrak and our electrified lines, and in diesel mode on our non electrified lines.

1) Night stop of the Transsiberian at Novosibirsk.

2) Trans Siberian Railway. Note the substantial chimney on the shack.

3) The train ferry SS Baikal in service on Lake Baikal, Central Siberia, shown in the act of breaking ice. Tyne & Wear Archives & Museums
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Re: Salzburg; "Rooms With A View"

Postby george matthews » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:45 am

David Benton wrote:I believe BNSF has seriously considered electrification in recent years. It may have been sidetracked by cheap natural gas lately, which is in the development stage.
I think it would be fair to say that most electrification in Western Europe has been mainly for the benefit of passenger trains, not freight trains, which sometimes use diesel locos under the wires.
What I really don't get is some Northeast USA commuter lines planning to replace Electrics with Diesels. Apparently this has to do with how much Amtrak charges them for electricity, though there are other benefits to electric than cost of fuel alone.
I would have thought lines such as the Cajon Pass would be good candidates for Electrification , though I read Southern California is facing a shortage of electricity generation.

Isn't it the case that some trans-continental lines have actually been de-electrified? It is clear that the problems which are being caused by the rise of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere have not yet been appreciated in the US.
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Re: Salzburg; "Rooms With A View"

Postby philipmartin » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:16 am

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Now that North America has become oil rich,

Czar Obama is impeding that.
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Re: Salzburg; "Rooms With A View"

Postby philipmartin » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:34 am

george matthews wrote:Isn't it the case that some trans-continental lines have actually been de-electrified?

The Milwaukee Road was the last of the trans-continentals, running between Chicago and Seattle. Starting around 1917 it electrified 550 miles in the Pacific Northwest, crossing the Rocky and Cascade Mountains. This was only part of its transcontinental line. It used wooden catenary poles, and by 1970 the electrification was in need of repair. It became cheaper to end electrification and use diesels.
Other rail lines have also partially electrified for a time.

Milwaukee Road motors. The third photo of the Bi-polar shows the oil fired steam generator working.
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Re: Salzburg; "Rooms With A View"

Postby johnthefireman » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:12 am

In steam engineer* David Wardale's "The Red Devil and other tales from the age of steam" he explains how in the 1970s (if I recall correctly; I don't have my copy with me to check the date) he did detailed calculations and determined that for any South African main line within 500 km of a coal-producing area, steam traction remained the most cost effective; for the rest of the country, electric. He saw no place at all for main line diesels. Similarly I believe that in the original British Rail pre-Beeching modernisation plan it was envisaged that the new steam locomotives being built right up until 1960 would cover the period up to the turn of the century while electrification was being installed, and as they were phased out they would be replaced directly by electric traction; again, no role for main line diesels. Of course in those days they didn't take environmental concerns into account, but it's strange how the infernal combustion engine circumvented the best laid plans of mice and men and ousted electrification to become the mainstay of modern main line traction in so many countries.

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* "engineer" in the international rather than the US usage; he was a mechanical engineer, not a locomotive driver.
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