Cincinnati Streetcar

General discussion of passenger rail proposals and systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar

Postby Myrtone » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:17 pm

When was the last time you have heard of a 'hybrid' diesel-electric streetcar, and they still have on-board generation supplying only on-board loads, in an urban eviroment where vehicles and stopping and starting quite frequently and traveling much closer together than, say, commercial aeroplanes, and remember that rechargable batteries either take longer the charge than fuel tanks take to refill, or add substatially to peak power demand, swapping batteries is the only solution. Also, batteries aren't indefinitely rechargabe, they get replaced after a certain number of duty cycles, toxic waste is produced duing remanufacture and disposal, and the energy needed to manufature and dispose batteries is not substatially less than what the batteries output over mamxium number of duty cycles. Most trolleybus abandonmanents were long before 'hyrbrid' busses were ever commercialised.
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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar

Postby mtuandrew » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:00 am

Whoa there, let's leave a little breathing room in your post! :wink:

I'm not clear what your post has to do with Cincinnati. Yes, trolley buses are efficient, we know. They also have most of the fixed guideway limitations of a railroad (difficult to pass one trolley bus with another!) without as high a potential service density, and using consumable motor products like tires and gear oil anyway.

So - how is that Cincinnati streetcar project progressing? Let's get back to that.
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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar

Postby dowlingm » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:44 pm

Myrtone wrote:When was the last time you have heard of a 'hybrid' diesel-electric streetcar
You mean like these? http://connectedcities.eu/downloads/sho ... kassel.pdf
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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar

Postby Myrtone » Thu May 23, 2013 11:03 pm

I saw an article in the latest T&UT magazine, and saw two photos of old streetcar track, uncovered, and still appeared to be in good condition, Cincy has also been critisied for cloisng would be trourist attractions, and so this raises a question, have any old Cincy streetcars, particularly PCCs passed (directly) into preservation and if so, why are there no plans for any heritage lines in the city? Wouldn't it be best to first open a heritage line or two and use that as the basis for the modern streetcar? At least one town in Spain has opened a hertiage tramway which has been or will be used as the basis for a new system.
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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar

Postby sipes23 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:14 pm

Apparently canceling it would be more expensive, or at least a wash. So bring on the Cincinnati streetcar.

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/12/tr ... incinnati/

"We’re going to have a streetcar,” Mayor John Cranley announced at a press conference yesterday, just a little more than a month after he made a declaration that the streetcar project would be scrapped in favor of funding other city services. Supporters of both sides in the streetcar debate made public statements saying that it was time for the city to move past the debate and accept the City Council’s vote.
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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar

Postby rogruth » Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:33 pm

What is the advantage of a Diesel powered trolley over a Diesel powered bus?
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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar

Postby Patrick Boylan » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:18 pm

Your question's singular, so I'll offer only one of the advantages: steel wheel on steel rail potentially is more fuel efficient than rubber tire on street paving.

If you had said what ARE the advantageS I'd add a few more, like :greater ability to have larger vehicles; run in trains without necessarily needing more operators; generally longer equipment lifespan.

And since you asked only for advantages I don't need to list any of the disadvantages of rail vs rubber tire.
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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar

Postby BandA » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:31 pm

[OT] what is the difference in cost between catenary infrastructure vs. equiping trolleys with big batteries? How about little batteries for gaps vs. raising/undercutting bridges? How about CNG which is ~~1/2 the cost of diesel (or was 6 mo ago).
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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar

Postby lpetrich » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:23 pm

I checked on The Cincinnati Streetcar's home page and I couldn't find anything on when its builders expect to start service. I had to check Cincinnati Streetcar - Wikipedia for that. It's apparently still some time in 2016.
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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar

Postby Myrtone » Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:15 am

Patrick Boylan wrote:It would be far simpler to use standard single overhead wire and use the tracks for the electric current's return, and put up an extra wire wherever the future trolleybus shares the route.


Problem is that pantographs are incompadible with trolleybus wiring.

Also, why does the over-the-Rhine loop need bidirectional rolling stock? There will be no dead end termini.
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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar

Postby The EGE » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:43 pm

I suspect it's easier and cheaper to procure double-ended rolling stock.
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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar

Postby Myrtone » Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:30 am

No unidirectional rolling stock is cheaper, as it only needs one cab and full set of controls per vehicle and usually half as many doors.
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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar

Postby ExCon90 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:52 pm

He said cheaper "to procure," not "to make." If it has to be made specially, it's going to be more expensive than something that's already in production.
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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar

Postby The EGE » Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:21 pm

One-sided doors restrict you to all-sides or all-islands for any expansion anyway. Almost no one makes single-ended streetcar stock any more, I believe.
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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar

Postby Myrtone » Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:24 am

Plenty of major builders most notably Skoda, do still make unidirectional rolling stock. And who needs island platforms on an essentially street based system? Most street based systems use only side platforms, this is generally the case on legacy systems. On narrower roads, platforms are necessarily on the nearside, and even on wider roads, staggered side-island platforms take up less (lateral) space than centre-island platforms. Note that a centre island platform has to be nearly twice as wide as each side platform for sufficient space to be available on the platform. If say both halves of a stop are best located either on the entry or exist sides of an intersection, then staggered side-island platforms are the most space efficient option.
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