IDOT readying RFP for high(er) speed locomotives

General discussion of passenger rail proposals and systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.

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IDOT readying RFP for high(er) speed locomotives

Postby kaitoku » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:14 am

The Illinois Department of Transportation (IDOT) is expected to seek proposals in mid-July to build high-speed locomotives for passenger-rail service in several states, Gov. Pat Quinn announced yesterday.

IDOT has made "significant progress" in preparing the request for proposals for 35 high-performance diesel-electric locomotives for Illinois, Michigan, Missouri and Iowa in the Midwest, and for Washington and California on the West Coast, Quinn said in a press release.

In March, Quinn announced the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) recommended that IDOT lead the procurement process.

The locomotives are expected to meet standards developed by the Next Generation Equipment Committee, a team of government and rail industry experts.


http://www.progressiverailroading.com/m ... est--36507
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Re: IDOT readying RFP for high(er) speed locomotives

Postby NH2060 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:25 pm

I think we can expect EMD to bid on this one the minute the RFP is made official.
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Re: IDOT readying RFP for high(er) speed locomotives

Postby Fan Railer » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:04 am

NH2060 wrote:I think we can expect EMD to bid on this one the minute the RFP is made official.

Lol yea. The real question is who else. Siemens is definitely going to be another contender... but any word on GE or Alstom? Or perhaps even Bombardier?
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Re: IDOT readying RFP for high(er) speed locomotives

Postby Fan Railer » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:23 pm

In August of 2013, the Illinois DOT, in conjunction with Amtrak and other state DOTs, released a joint procurement RFP for 32 high-speed (125 mph), PRIIA spec'd, diesel-electric locomotives for intra-state commuter services. Of the 32 base locomotives, 21 would be allocated for Illinois and Michigan service, 6 would be for Amtrak California service, with the remaining 5 for use on the Cascades service in Washington. The contract includes options for up to 75 additional commuter spec'd locomotives, and up to 150 long distance interstate locomotives for a total of 257 locomotives. The long distance locomotives would differ mainly from the commuter locomotives in the following ways: larger fuel tank (2,200 gallons vs. 1800 gallons) and higher HEP capacity (1000 kW vs. 800 kW).
http://www.dot.il.gov/procurement/NGECl ... oject.html

I find it interesting that they are only specifying 150 LD locomotives at this point, when there are approximately 220 LD locomotives to replace.
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Re: IDOT readying RFP for high(er) speed locomotives

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:42 pm

NH2060 wrote:I think we can expect EMD to bid on this one the minute the RFP is made official.

Is the LaGrange/McCook facility still even in use to allow for a "assembled in Illinois" product?
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Re: IDOT readying RFP for high(er) speed locomotives

Postby Woody » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:05 pm

R36 Combine Coach wrote:
NH2060 wrote:I think we can expect EMD to bid on this one the minute the RFP is made official.

Is the LaGrange/McCook facility still even in use to allow for a "assembled in Illinois" product?


Wikipedia says yes to La Grange

In addition to the corporation's administrative offices, La Grange houses design engineering, emissions testing, rebuild operations, and manufacturing of major components, including prime mover engines, traction alternators, electrical cabinets, and turbochargers. The La Grange facility includes three main buildings, with over 1,200,000 square feet of office and manufacturing space. Ancillary buildings are used to provide maintenance and testing capabilities.


AND adds Muncie, Ind.

In October 2010, Caterpillar Inc. announced it was investing US$50 million to acquire and renovate an existing 740,000-square-foot building for assembly of EMD branded locomotives, and to build a locomotive test track, on a 75-acre site located in Muncie, Indiana. The facility allows EMD to supply locomotives to publicly funded passenger rail agencies that require their rail equipment to be assembled in the United States.

On October 28, 2011, the plant was officially opened ...


As i noted in a post on the other thread, other contenders would seem
to include GE, Siemens, and Tognum AG of Germany.

I'm sure every contender was basically ready with a bid on Friday when
the Request came out.

=====================================

Opps. Editing this because I'm CONFUSED. Not for the first time. LOL.

I'm wondering, hoping so of course, that the bidding will be intense, and
[Amtrak] THE STATES will not only get a great new locomotive, but
will also get a great bargain ... leaving a few millions left over for
other uses. {(like the annual installment payment on the CAF order
for 130 Viewliner IIs)]

Of course, the money was granted to the states, not to Amtrak, so
the states will get to use any leftover funds. Right? Or will unspent
funds revert to the DOT/FRA to apply as needed. Hmmmn.

I'm sure Illinois, Michigan, California and the other states could
find good ways to spend any money left over from a bargain bid.
But right now Amtrak is in a real pinch to pay for the overdue
Viewliner IIs, and with Congress in its current froth-mouthed state,
Amtrak can count on little or no help from there.
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Re: IDOT readying RFP for high(er) speed locomotives

Postby Nasadowsk » Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:03 pm

Woody wrote:As i noted in a post on the other thread, other contenders would seem to include GE, Siemens, and Tognum AG of Germany.


Tognum is the company that owns MTU. They build engines, not locomotives.

I'm sure every contender was basically ready with a bid on Friday when the Request came out.


Vossloh, Alstom, MPI, GE, EMD, Siemens, maybe Bombardier but Amtrak won't buy from BBD.

Vossloh, Alstom, and EMD might be interesting: from what I've read, the F-125 looks like it borrows lot from the PL-42, which is an Alstom locomotive that was built by Vossloh. EMD's partnered with Vossloh.

Realistically, it's GE, EMD (see above), MPI, and Siemens.
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Re: IDOT readying RFP for high(er) speed locomotives

Postby 25Hz » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:06 pm

Any renderings or photos of the F-125?
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Re: IDOT readying RFP for high(er) speed locomotives

Postby electricron » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:35 pm

25Hz wrote:Any renderings or photos of the F-125?

Isn't it a little early for that, after all IDOT is just finalizing the RFP paperwork?
Before we'll know who wins the contract to build them; all the manufacturers must submit proposals, IDOT must evaluate the proposals ranking them in both technically and financially, then the winning bidder and IDOT have to negotiate the final contract terms, price, delivery dates, and penalties for failure to meet terms. That's about the time we should see a drawing of what these might look like, when the winning bidder is announced publicly. That could be months from now.
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Re: IDOT readying RFP for high(er) speed locomotives

Postby Rockingham Racer » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:38 pm

25Hz wrote:Any renderings or photos of the F-125?

Yes. Google is your friend! :wink:
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Re: IDOT readying RFP for high(er) speed locomotives

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:00 am

25Hz wrote:Any renderings or photos of the F-125?


EMD's brochure: http://www.emdiesels.com/emdweb/product ... v5RevE.pdf

Looks pretty much like everything new that's coming out now. Although not quite as godawful ugly as the the new MPI HSP-46.


Any advance word on what Alstom and Siemens are cooking up as probable competitors? The F125 has its Metrolink order slated for delivery in 2015 so it's the one that's gotten all the advance publicity. I would assume MPI is probably going with some Amtrak/corridor/LD-oriented extension of the HSP-46 platform as its market entry for this.
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Re: IDOT readying RFP for high(er) speed locomotives

Postby David Benton » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:33 am

127 tonnes at 125 mph. 31 tonne axle weight. Track maintenance are going to love the F125.
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Re: IDOT readying RFP for high(er) speed locomotives

Postby GWoodle » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:17 pm

R36 Combine Coach wrote:
NH2060 wrote:I think we can expect EMD to bid on this one the minute the RFP is made official.

Is the LaGrange/McCook facility still even in use to allow for a "assembled in Illinois" product?


IIRC the La Grange facility was mostly an engineering office with some capability to make prime movers, but final assembly at the new Muncie plant. Progress Rail has other facility in Mayfield KY where the Metra F40 rebuilds were done.

could be some competition between EMD & Cat diesels
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Re: IDOT readying RFP for high(er) speed locomotives

Postby NH2060 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:10 pm

David Benton wrote:127 tonnes at 125 mph. 31 tonne axle weight. Track maintenance are going to love the F125.

Well keep in mind they won't actually crack 125mph in revenue service. Amtrak would have to upgrade ALL grade crossings with extra barriers, etc. (on top of the pre-existing quad gates, etc.) on whatever lines they'd want to operate them at that speed. The FRA is impeccably stringent on that.

Which begs the question of why Amtrak/Midwest States would buy a 125mph capable diesel locomotive in the first place unless they would be willing to fund additional grade crossing upgrades/replacements down the road. Sounds like a case of "well if it's geared for 125mph it should perform flawlessly at 110" which I suppose wouldn't be bad logic as long as the acceleration/deceleration capability and pulling power was there to handle both current and future increased demand.
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Re: IDOT readying RFP for high(er) speed locomotives

Postby David Benton » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:49 pm

NH2060 wrote:
David Benton wrote:127 tonnes at 125 mph. 31 tonne axle weight. Track maintenance are going to love the F125.

Well keep in mind they won't actually crack 125mph in revenue service. Amtrak would have to upgrade ALL grade crossings with extra barriers, etc. (on top of the pre-existing quad gates, etc.) on whatever lines they'd want to operate them at that speed. The FRA is impeccably stringent on that.

Which begs the question of why Amtrak/Midwest States would buy a 125mph capable diesel locomotive in the first place unless they would be willing to fund additional grade crossing upgrades/replacements down the road. Sounds like a case of "well if it's geared for 125mph it should perform flawlessly at 110" which I suppose wouldn't be bad logic as long as the acceleration/deceleration capability and pulling power was there to handle both current and future increased demand.

Exactly my point. Hopefully they don't sacrifice acceleration to meet the 125 mph capable, and its never used.
However, its probably more likely just a bit of bling, most 150 mph motorbikes and cars never go anywhere near that in real use. not for long anyway , the license or rider / driver tend to expire.
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