Hours of Service/outlaw rule

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Hours of Service/outlaw rule

Postby dummy » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:22 am

the outlaw rule. train crews must be replaced after 8 hours on the job. correct ? is this rule just for ny state ?
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Re: outlaw rule

Postby jurtz » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:11 am

I believe hours of service are federal (FRA) rules, not state rules. And it is not always 8 hours - I think the maximum continuous on-duty time is 12 hours, but it can vary depending on how long you were off duty before coming on duty. I don't know all of the details.
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Re: outlaw rule

Postby BR&P » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:15 am

Train crews and signal maintainers may work up to 12 hours. If they work 11:59 they must have 8 hours rest before returning. If they work 12 hours or more it's 10 hours rest.

Dispatchers may work 12 hours if it's a one-trick job, only 9 hours if it's a 2-trick job.

Crews who have reached 12 hours stop work, but remain on the clock if they're waiting for a taxi or being driven to a terminal, so it's possible to receive more than 12 hours pay. This "limbo time" is considered neither on- nor off-duty for rest purposes - their 10 hours rest does not start until they are finally marked off.
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Re: outlaw rule

Postby DutchRailnut » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:27 am

If proper rest facilities are provided, a crew can work 16 hours, as long as a 4 hour cutout(rest) is provided.
for continous time a crew can work 12 max.

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/wais ... 28_06.html
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Re: Hours of Service/outlaw rule

Postby BR&P » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:15 am

No, Dutch, that's not correct.

49 CFR 228 Appendix A "Train and Engine Service" (1) "When an employee's work tour is broken or interrupted by a valid period of interim release (4 hours or more at a designated terminal) he may return to duty for the balance of the total 12-hour work tour during a 24-hour period."
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Re: Hours of Service/outlaw rule

Postby DutchRailnut » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:19 am

With the 16 hours I ment including rest period, you are correct on total hours worked to be no more than 12.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: Hours of Service/outlaw rule

Postby GOLDEN-ARM » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:04 am

The DS has it made. They can only work 9 hours, in a 24 hour period. :P
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Re: Hours of Service/outlaw rule

Postby SooLineRob » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:38 am

Addition to above:

12 Hours maximum on duty time provided previous off duty time meets or exceeds minimum (8 or 10 hours off).

1 minute to 11 hours 59 minutes on duty requires 8 hours off to work another 12; or time may be "split" by a respite.

12 hours on duty requires 10 hours off duty.

12 hours, 1 minute OR more time on duty requires 10 hours off duty and results in an Hours Of Service violation. Employees may be ordered by a supervisor to violate the 12 hour limit during an "emergency", which may result in the railroad company getting fined for the violation.

The 12 hour maximum may be "split" by a respite of 4 hours UP TO 7 hours and 59 minutes off duty.

Once the minimum off duty time is met (either 8 or 10 hours off), and employees may work another 12 hours.

Example: 6 hours ON duty, 7 hours 59 minutes "respite" OFF duty, another 6 hours ON duty equals 12 hours ON duty, but with an elapsed time of 19 hours and 59 minutes.

There are many complicated situations that are addressed by the Hours Of Service rules, such as called and released before and after reporting for work, commingled service, deadheading, limbo time, et cetera.
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Re: Hours of Service/outlaw rule

Postby conrail6479 » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:43 pm

train crews will give a 3hr work call to the DS before getting recrewed. it is an 12hr shift for conductors and engineers unless it says otherwise .
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Re: Hours of Service/outlaw rule

Postby Gadfly » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:05 pm

Hours of Service rules also apply to Train Order Clerk/Operators and Interlocking/Block Ops. Most RR's have gone away from Train Orders in favor of Track Warrants and onboard computers. But back in the old days, clerks had to be mindful of their HOS, too, if they had worked Train Orders. You could get in real hot water if you accepted a call off the 'board while you were still "on the law". The company(s) would get some big fines if FRA got wind of it. I saw this happen when one "eager beaver" clerk WAS on the law, but accepted a call anyway. It sure wasn't pretty!!!!!! You could hear the Terminal Agent yelling THRU the door and all over the yard office in true railroad fashion!! :( WHEW! The THINGS he SAID!!!!! :P

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Re: Hours of Service/outlaw rule

Postby CPSK » Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:49 pm

It's been a long time this thread has been "bumped up", but seeing it's still open, I have a question:
What happens if a crew outlaws on the mainline? Can they go a few minutes past the 12hr (or whatever) limit for duty to bring the train to an appropriate stopping area, or must they bring the train to a safe stop wherever they happen to be? I would hope that it would be allowed to at least clear interlockings and crossings, even if it means going 5min over limit.

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Re: Hours of Service/outlaw rule

Postby rovetherr » Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:11 pm

12 hours is 12 hours, no its, ands or buts. The crew is supposed to plan ahead so that when their time is up, the train is stopped and tied down clear of crossings, control points, etc. Even if that means stopping before their time is run out. Just another reason we have to know our physical characteristics.
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Re: Hours of Service/outlaw rule

Postby CPSK » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:47 pm

rovetherr wrote:12 hours is 12 hours, no its, ands or buts. The crew is supposed to plan ahead so that when their time is up, the train is stopped and tied down clear of crossings, control points, etc. Even if that means stopping before their time is run out. Just another reason we have to know our physical characteristics.

Reason I asked the question is that while listening to CSX here in NJ, I heard dispatcher and crew discussing taking a "chance" to move crew farther south towards eventual destination of the train so as to free up a siding elsewhere. They finally decided to tie the train down where it was, clear of all crossings, etc and call the taxi. That is the decision I would have made had I been either crew or dispatcher. IMHO, if you want to take a chance like that, Mr. Murphey will catch you, and make things difficult.

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Re: outlaw rule

Postby Passenger » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:55 am

BR&P wrote:...

Dispatchers may work 12 hours if it's a one-trick job, only 9 hours if it's a 2-trick job.

...


Please explain this expression.

Thank you.
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Re: outlaw rule

Postby nomis » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:48 pm

Passenger wrote:
BR&P wrote:...

Dispatchers may work 12 hours if it's a one-trick job, only 9 hours if it's a 2-trick job.

...


Please explain this expression.

Thank you.

If there's only one dispatching job, it can be a 12 hour shift, but multiple shifts require 9 hours work total.
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