Trains without cab signals entering cab signal territory

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Trains without cab signals entering cab signal territory

Postby Lackawanna565 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:39 pm

I live a few blocks from the CP Sunbury Sub. The line doesn't have cab signals. But some trains enter the Pittsburgh Line at CP Wye. Recently I noticed NS 11R and 12R running with other railroad power. And I doubt they have cab signals. When they enter the Pittsburgh Line. They get a slow clear. Do they treat that train like it had a failed cab signal? I know a train with a failed cab signal must approach the next signal at medium speed once it left interlocking limits. I found a site that has a copy of the eight edition of the NORAC rules. I was looking for something a rule about a train running in cab signal territory with the cab signals. But couldn't find anything. I just wanted to be sure that the rules for the train that doesn't have CS signals is the same with a train that has a failed cab signal.
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Re: Trains without cab signals entering cab signal territory

Postby ThirdRail7 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:25 am

Lackawanna565 wrote:I live a few blocks from the CP Sunbury Sub. The line doesn't have cab signals. But some trains enter the Pittsburgh Line at CP Wye. Recently I noticed NS 11R and 12R running with other railroad power. And I doubt they have cab signals. When they enter the Pittsburgh Line. They get a slow clear. Do they treat that train like it had a failed cab signal? I know a train with a failed cab signal must approach the next signal at medium speed once it left interlocking limits. I found a site that has a copy of the eight edition of the NORAC rules. I was looking for something a rule about a train running in cab signal territory with the cab signals. But couldn't find anything. I just wanted to be sure that the rules for the train that doesn't have CS signals is the same with a train that has a failed cab signal.



I vaguely familiar with that territory, but I would ask if you're sure that the lead units are not equipped with cab signals. This is because in general, units that aren't equipped with cab signals aren't allowed in cab signal territory.

From NS rules:

550. Train Not Equipped with Cab Signal Apparatus
(a) The movement of a train not equipped with cab signal apparatus
is prohibited, except when authorized by the Timetable.
EXCEPTION: Work trains to and from work, and engines moving
to and from shops are authorized to operate NOT equipped.

(b) Movements authorized by the Timetable to operate not
equipped will:
1. Notify the Train Dispatcher/Control Operator before entering
equipped territory.
2. Be governed by fixed signal indication observing Restricted
Speed unless the Train Dispatcher/Control Operator authorizes
Rule 556.


From NORAC:

550. Train Not Equipped with Cab Signal Apparatus
The movement of a train not equipped with cab signal apparatus is prohibited,
except when authorized by the Timetable.

Movements authorized by Timetable will:
1. Notify the Dispatcher before entering equipped territory,
AND
2. Be governed by fixed signal indication, observing Restricted Speed unless the
Dispatcher authorizes Rule 556


From CSX:


512.1 Cab Signal System (CSS) rules apply where designated in special instructions, dispatcher message,
or Form EC-1.
512.2 The movement of a train not equipped with cab signal apparatus is prohibited, except when
authorized in special instructions or Form EC-1 as follows:
1. Movement is governed by fixed signal indication, and

2. Movement is made at restricted speed unless the train dispatcher authorizes an alternate
method of operation.


From Metro-North:

RULE 15
OPERATION UNDER CAB SIGNAL SYSTEM RULES
15-A Cab Signal System (CSS) rules are in effect on those tracks as indicated
in the Line Special Instructions or by Bulletin Order.
15-B Trains operating on tracks where CSS rules are in effect must be
equipped with operative train control apparatus in the lead unit, unless
otherwise authorized by Timetable.

When movement of non-equipped trains is authorized, such movement
will be made at Restricted Speed. The RTC must note in the Record
of Train Movements any train not equipped.


I'm no longer qualified on any other books, but you get the general idea.

NS controls the PGH Line and their special instructions don't allow for operation from non signaled territory:



9. PITTSBURGH LINE
DISTRICT INSTRUCTIONS
A1. CAB SIGNALS
Exceptions for Trains Not Equipped
The following exceptions are authorized for trains and engines not equipped with cab
signals:
Road trains and engines used in switching and transfer service with or without
cars between Harrisburg, Banks, Hip, and Cannon.


It would seem that a through movement coming off the Buffalo Line heading for the Pittsburgh Line would have to be equipped with cab signals and therefore the move you mentioned would likely be prohibited, meaning the rest of your premise isn't valid.

In the unlikely event such a movement was authorized, movement is made as listed above.
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