Bergers PA?

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Bergers PA?

Postby nydepot » Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:05 pm

Where is Bergers PA on the, what many railroad books say is, former LV (originally CNJ) trackage?
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Re: Bergers PA?

Postby charlie6017 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:02 pm

nydepot wrote:Where is Bergers PA on the, what many railroad books say is, former LV (originally CNJ) trackage?


According to this article, it's between White Haven and Fraser Interlocking on the old L&S. Sounds like
it's just a bit west of the Lehigh Gorge.

Charlie

https://books.google.com/books?id=kEpNA ... Pa&f=false
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Re: Bergers PA?

Postby pumpers » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:59 pm

Find the town of Rita on a modern map - intersection of Church Rd and Lake Francis Rd. Follow the current tracks south about a half mile where the bend to the east is. At the bend was Berger water tank . No town I can see. This was on a 1947 topo. Not shown at all on modern tops. The tracks were CNJ (L&S) as noted. LV was about a half mile to the east, no location on the LV ever called Berger from what I can tell.
EDIT: Related, does anyone know where a CNJ track chart is online from the steam era? There is one at www.raildata.railfan.net, but it is only for NJ and I think from the mid 1950s.
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Re: Bergers PA?

Postby nydepot » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:20 am

Thank you!

Charles
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Re: Bergers PA?

Postby pumpers » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:28 am

charlie6017 wrote:
nydepot wrote:Where is Bergers PA on the, what many railroad books say is, former LV (originally CNJ) trackage?


According to this article, it's between White Haven and Fraser Interlocking on the old L&S. Sounds like
it's just a bit west of the Lehigh Gorge.

Charlie

https://books.google.com/books?id=kEpNA ... Pa&f=false

I've been trying to figure out what this "Bergers" is. The link says the Lehigh Valley crossed over or under the L&S at Leighton, Coalport, White Haven, Bergers and Fairfield. (At Penn Haven they crossed at grade). Let's assume the list is in order from timetable east to west, since that is the order of Lehighton/Coalport/White Haven. Some topo maps show Fairview as between Mountain Top and Penobscot, right where the LV went over the CNJ(L&S) on the way to Sugar Run and Wilkes Barre. The only other place they crossed was about 3 miles north of White Haven where the LV went over the L&S (~1 mile north of Frasers).
N 41.09844 W 75.78368 So that must be this other "Bergers" .

This is about 5 miles timetable east of the Berger Water Tank. No idea if/how they are related.
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Re: Bergers PA?

Postby nydepot » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:02 pm

I think your first suggestion is right. The photos in books of Bergers shows a photographer taking a picture across a field at a train. The train is a bit below the photographers but not much. This fits your first description for a photographer parked on the side of S Church Rd taking a photo looking south.

https://goo.gl/maps/GRrjBAKtb732

In videos they reference taking off for Bergers and then leaving to get more photos. Your second link would require hiking in and out.
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Re: Bergers PA?

Postby cnjtowers » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:40 pm

Bergers was at approx MP 150.

Let me put this in perspective based on places and approx mileposts west (1915 ETT) from Mauch Chunk/Jim Thorpe:

(Timetable Entries in BOLD)

Mauch Chunk/Jim Thorpe 117.79
PQ Nesquehoning Jct. 119.28
(CNJ Bridges over Lehigh River and LVRR)
Coalport 119.58
Glen Onoko 120.24
Hetzeltooth 121
Ox Bow Curve 122 to 123
Bear Creek About 124
Penn Haven Jct. 126.15 (At Grade Crossing with LVRR, LVRR Bridge Over Lehigh River)
West End Penn Haven Middle Track 126.87
Stony Creek Curve 128 - 129
Barn Door 130
Drakes Point (about 130.5)
Rockport 132.85
W End Rockport Middle Track 133.98
Mud Run (Almost 136)
Leslie Run 136.56
Drifton Jct. 138.21
(LVRR OG Bridge ___ Branch??) About 139
Tannery 140.54
Upper Lehigh Jct. 141.52
(LVRR Main OG Bridge Crossing Lehigh River and CNJ Main 141.78)
White Haven 142.28
Frasers 143 (Also called Powder Mill))
Stone Quarry 144
(LVRR OG Bridge about 145)
(White Haven Tunnel -- Single Track)
UN Tunnel 147.56
West End Tunnel Siding About 148
Bergers 150 (Water Tank)
Rita/Crestwood 151.89 (Top of WB Up Grade)
Glen Summit 153.68
Penobscot (West End Double Track) 155.31
Solomon's Gap 156.79 (Top of EB Grade)
LVRR OG Bridge (just west of Solomon's Gap-- LVRR Passenger Main??)
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Re: Bergers PA?

Postby charlie6017 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:46 pm

Reading through this discussion has me remembering a past conversation (but I forget if it was on this site
or another one) where someone mentioned Bergers as a watering spot during the steam era, so I think you are
onto something.

Now if I can only remember when and where that previous conversation was (wish me luck!)..... :P

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Re: Bergers PA?

Postby pumpers » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:34 am

USGS has a cool new site that lets you choose which topo map to see anywhere in the US.

Go to https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/topoview/viewer/#4/39.98/-100.06
After a few seconds (at least on my computer) you get a window that has a place to enter a place at "search by location" on the top right. Enter "41.1141, -75.8677" and then "return". A menu of topo maps that cover that location comes up on the right. Scroll down that list until you see a "White Haven' 1947 or 1950 map (if you want to see the Berger Water Tank). The Scranton maps are low resolution and don't show it. Click on the name of the map, and the name of the map opens into a small window. Click on "Show" in that window and the maps opens up. YOu can left click/hold/drag to move around in the map.

You can then click on other map names and "open" to see them. TO get a list of maps for a new location, left click on the main map. I hope you remember what you are looking for, but it is fun anyway to explore around...
JS

EDIT: I posted earlier that Berger water tank was not on the Lehigh Valley. But I forgot that after 1965 the LV and CNJ combined to give a single main up from Allentown to Wilkes Barre. From a mile or so north of White Haven up to Laurel Run, which included the former Berger Water Tank, it was the CNJ line which was used. So after 1965, LV traffic would have been going though Bergers too.
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