any steam technology used in early diesals?

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any steam technology used in early diesals?

Postby NRGeep » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:11 am

Or was the design completly independent?
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Re: any steam technology used in early diesals?

Postby Steffen » Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:40 pm

Speaking for the germans, the early diesels used the rods and drive bars, according to steam engines, thus some axles and wheels were exchangeable, as the bearings were made in the same way.
This changed quickly, to rod less diesels, which had trucks and power shafts. There is no technology, which can be used, because there is one internal combustion and one external combustion.
Brakes were the same, but the air compressor was belt driven in diesels, and not steam driven.
Some of the engines were started with air after preheating with a coke fire to preheat the cooling water and oil of the engine. After start, only cylinder was used to refill the air tanks for the startup, and after air tanks being completely filled, the cylinder was reset into the normal combustion mode, thus air intake, compression was the same, but the exhaust was not pressed into the air tank, it was no set to the exhaust pipes and the diesel injection and ignition was switched on again... Other engines had air start, but needed a smaller electric started auxiliary diesel engine to drive electric generator and air compressor for start, but this aux engine was shut down after start of the main diesels. Some aux diesels only turned an aux generator, just to turn and start the main diesel by the electric starter, then the aux engine was shut down.

So, there was really, really less used from the steam engines - the engines were in Germany to different from each other.
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Re: any steam technology used in early diesals?

Postby mtuandrew » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:13 am

A few things off the top of my head, from American practice:

-steam generators for train heat
-engine and truck frame styles (see some of the center-cab Baldwins - they look just like tender trucks)
-long-hood-forward design, similar to steamers

Also, Steffen is quite right that early diesels and gasoline-electrics used things like side rods (the GE 44 tonners and Plymouths in particular), air start, and even air chimes (whistles.) Otherwise, I can't say whether a lot of technology made the leap, or simply operating practices.
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Re: any steam technology used in early diesals?

Postby Allen Hazen » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:07 am

Mtuandrew--
Just to be a boring, pedantic, nit-picking, rivet-counter... GE's 44 tonner was a four-motor unit with each axle independently driven. The one with side-rods was the cheaper, slightly lower-powered, 45 tonner. (The 44 toner was designed for railroad service, the 45 for industrial switching.) Also many of the two-axle 25 and 35 ton GE switchers had side rods.

Side-rods on diesels were more common outside North America. British Rail's standard switcher (Class 08 and 09, developed from prototypes built for the London & Northwestern Railway in the 1930s) was a three-axle unit with two (I think) traction motors and side-rods: hundreds and hundreds built, a few still in service.

In addition to steam, early diesel locomotives had another technological ancestor: trolley cars and gas-electric railcars. GE's earliest work on diesel locomotives (in the WW I period) stemmed from their earlier development of self-propelled (gas-electric) railcars for low-density passenger service.
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Re: any steam technology used in early diesals?

Postby GSC » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:22 am

Small switchers like those made by Davenport had side rods - the rear axle was powered by a geared transmission. Lima built a small switcher that used outside line shafts and gears to power the axles, just like a Shay.

Like mentioned above, early cab-on-one-end diesels were designed to be run long hood forward. One or two models of smaller Fairbanks-Morse switchers had overhanging cab roof extensions, like steamers had over the tenders. Some units came with cowcatcher-inspired pilots.

Don't know if this had anything to do with steam, but diesel egineers also sat on the right side (mostly, depending upon what country they were running in)

Diesels had to supply head-end steam to be compatible with existing passenger coach design. Converting to diesel was expensive enough, without having to buy new passenger equipment too.

Air brake systems were a holdover from steam days. Why change something that worked?

Turntables, wyes, and loops were still needed to turn single-unit cowl-type diesels.
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Re: any steam technology used in early

Postby Mr.S » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:31 pm

diesals? Should read as Diesels..
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