90mph steam run in UK

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90mph steam run in UK

Postby Chafford1 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:14 am

Last week A4 Pacific 'Bittern' was tested at 90mph on the Great Western Mainline in the UK in advance of the three high speed runs on the East Coast Main Line this summer as part of the 75th Anniversary of 'Mallard's' steam speed record:

Here are a couple of videos of the test run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycJkfaHAhEQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me1OfEEKk3I
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Re: 90mph steam run in UK

Postby Steffen » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:50 pm

I don't know what is allowed in GB, but in Germany there is a speed limit on 99 mph... But we have engines which run the 86 mph more or less regulary...
Allways keep two-thrid level in gauge and a well set fire, that's how the engineer likes a fireman
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Re: 90mph steam run in UK

Postby Chafford1 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:55 am

Steffen wrote:I don't know what is allowed in GB, but in Germany there is a speed limit on 99 mph... But we have engines which run the 86 mph more or less regulary...


75mph is the normal limit for steam in the UK; the 90mph runs are the first official runs above 75mph since 1967. However there were a couple of strictly unofficial runs in the 90s of 99mph and 102mph!

This is Bittern at speed on its old stomping ground, the East Coast Main Line:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUnjQh8XuAo
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Re: 90mph steam run in UK

Postby Steffen » Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:33 pm

Chafford1 wrote: However there were a couple of strictly unofficial runs in the 90s of 99mph and 102mph!


In Germany you cannot run faster as 99 mph,if you do, you will get a very, very rough punishment for speeding, with not only fees, also the driver can loose his license. Also most engines running the main line need to book the line, and if you were found speeding, this booking will be canceled and you loose access to the main lines.
Certain speed controls check electronically the speed of the train, and the work well, if you're speeding, they stop you and then you'll have trouble, right at the point were they got you. And then they got you right at the balls :wink:
And because you're electronically controlled, they read the electronic memory and will find the true speed in the records - and then there is no discussion anymore.
In Germany - safety first, and that's why we have electronic controls for all engines as need for going in motion on the main line.
Allways keep two-thrid level in gauge and a well set fire, that's how the engineer likes a fireman
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Re: 90mph steam run in UK

Postby kato » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:35 am

Steffen wrote:In Germany you cannot run faster as 99 mph

... on a 99 mph route. Doesn't apply to 124, 143 or 186 mph routes.

The fastest recent steam speed record in Germany is ca 99 mph though (last: privately owned DR 18.201 in 2011). But if say VM Nürnberg refurbished its museum DR 05.001 steam engine and let her out they could make her do her 124 mph - as long as the track's rated for that.
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Re: 90mph steam run in UK

Postby Steffen » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:26 pm

kato wrote:... on a 99 mph route. Doesn't apply to 124, 143 or 186 mph routes.


No, you are not allowed to go faster than 99 mph! You'll need LZB to go faster than 99 mph, and that means electronic controlled acceleration and braking controls - very unlikly to get a steam engine fitted with that!
So your speed limit is set to 160 km/h... that's why even modern ICE trains of germany only travel 160 km/h (99 mph) if the LZB controls fail... because with PZB you are only allowed to go 99 mph... sorry, it doesn't matter if you have a track construced and allowed for 186 mph or 124 mph...you are not allowed to go faster than 99 mph without LZB

The fastest recent steam speed record in Germany is ca 99 mph though (last: privately owned DR 18.201 in 2011).


Well, no... the latest record is 101 mph.
18 201 never run faster than 99 mph after it's private ownership, because the load and gear problems made it nearly impossible to go faster. It's 112 mph record was only done light engine on the czechian speed ring... many dream of leting the engine run faster, but the E41 boiler won't be able to deliver the steam neccessary for those speeds, as the BR61 running gear isn't able to widstand this speed - as to generate this power for those speeds.
And today, 18 201 won't go faster as 99 mph, because it has no equipment with LZB - so speed is limited to 99 mph, even if the engine has admission to run 112 mph from construction - but in service, it is only allowed to go 99 mph

But if say VM Nürnberg refurbished its museum DR 05.001 steam engine and let her out they could make her do her 124 mph - as long as the track's rated for that.


No. 99 mph limit. Because you have to equip 05 001 with LZB, very unlikly to happen, because as mentioned above, you need electronical control of throttle, gear and brake for LZB... even if the engine has the contructional admission for 108 mph. The 124 mph was a record on closed track, and it was finished by a radio signal from the dynamometer car behind the engine - because the measurement gear in the car wasn't able to measure greater speeds and the staff has serious worries about stability of the car running those speeds - 05 001 wasn't going top notch, but it was traveling on sprint. she could travel faster, but only short distances in sprints, top speed to hold without sprint was the 108 mph - that's why they gave 05 series only constructional admission for 108 mph, and not 124 mph
Allways keep two-thrid level in gauge and a well set fire, that's how the engineer likes a fireman
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