USRA 2-8-8-2 design

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USRA 2-8-8-2 design

Postby curmudgeon » Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:56 pm

Hi all -

Can anyone tell me if this design was original, an adopted/modified N&W Y-class, or were the Y's modified USRA's?

Which came first?

TIA.

regards,
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can avoid altogether."

curmudgeon
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Postby mp15ac » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:29 am

First came the N&W Y-2 and Y-2a 2-8-8-2's. They were so good that the N&W was permitted to keep building them even after the USRA took over control of locomotive production during WWI.

Next came the USRA/N&W Y-3 2-8-8-2, which was an adaptation of the N&W Y-2. The driver diameter was increased by one inch (from 56" to 57"), and the boiler shape was changed. Grate area, boiler pressure, and cylinder size were kept the same. As a result, the Y-2's had slightly higher tractive effort, but the USRA/Y-3's were better steamers (superior boiler).

After WWI, the N&W bought additional 2-8-8-2's classed Y-3a, which were basically copies of the USRA/Y-3 design, except for some N&W features, such as the inspection hatch on the boiler. During the late 1920's and 1930's N&W upgraded the Y-3/Y-3a engines with the addition of Worthington BL feadwater heaters, mounted on the fireman's side of the boiler. To counter-weight this they moved the two cross-compound airpumps from the smokebox front to the engineer's side of the boiler.

Stuart
The light at the end of the tunnel may be the headlight of an on-coming train.
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Postby curmudgeon » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:48 pm

Hi Stuart -

Thanks for the info - just a matter of curiosity, but it's been buggin' me. :wink:

To round it all out, were there Y's & Y-1's also, with a, b, etc. subclasses?

Finally, I can tell Y-3's (as built) from -4/-5/-6 by the cab front, big pipe between cab & first dome, & boilerfront extending over front truck on later ones.
Are there any readily noticeable diffs in Y/-1/-2 looks compared to Y-3's?
You mention a change in boiler shape from -2 to -3.
(Haven't found any pics of pre-3 engines).

Again, TIA! :-D

regards,

Terry
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can avoid altogether."

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Postby mp15ac » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:30 am

The biggest visual difference between the Y-2 and Y-3 is where the largest boiler course is located. On the Y-2 it is just ahead of the firebox, while on the Y-3 it is about midway along the boiler at the steam dome.

Photo of a Y-2a

Image

Photo of a Y-3a

Image

As for the Y-1 (there never was a class Y) it was a much more "primative" looking engine, having none of the bulk of the latter Y series engines.

I also found a web page with the specifications of all of the Y series engines, from Y-1 to Y-6b.

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/articulated/nwy.shtml

Enjoy!

Stuart
The light at the end of the tunnel may be the headlight of an on-coming train.
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Postby curmudgeon » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:08 pm

Thanks again, Stuart -

Good info, excellent link & lovely pix! :-D

Re: the Y-2 pic -

I've never seen that tender before - powered no less!
Is it N&W, a "factory add-"on or what?
Know how much tractive effort it added?
Was it used with other engines?

And another mystery to me - what was the purpose of the doghouse on large tenders???

regards,

Terry
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can avoid altogether."

curmudgeon
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Postby mp15ac » Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:41 am

The tender was a N&W job, probable modified from the original with an enlarged coal bunker. If I remember correctly the double boosters weren't kept very long. I believe they added an additional 30,000lb of tractive effort, but also increased maintenance costs. I believe they also installed a set on a Y-3 that was used in yard service as well.

As for the dog house on the tender, it was for the head end brakeman. He could sit in there and watch the train without being distracted by the goings-on in the cab.

Stuart
The light at the end of the tunnel may be the headlight of an on-coming train.
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Postby curmudgeon » Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:09 am

Hi Stuart -

A final, sincere "thank you" for your excellent responses, & for bearing with me. :wink:

Now all I need is to find a pic of a Y-1.

regards,

Terry
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can avoid altogether."

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Postby timz » Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:11 pm

"while on the Y-3 it is about midway along the boiler at the steam dome."

This makes it sound like the boiler barrel tapered smaller in both directions from the steam dome. I'll check, but I'm guessing not.
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Postby curmudgeon » Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:26 pm

Hi timz -

A look at the pic of the Y-3 Stuart posted shows that it is, in fact, smaller just in front of the cab than at the dome.

Top views show the bulge even more obviously.

regards,

Terry
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can avoid altogether."

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Postby timz » Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:27 pm

Sure-- the top of the firebox does taper downward to the rear. But the boiler barrel (everything ahead of the firebox) alternates between tapering-smaller-forward and cylindrical. Turns out the 1922 Cyc does have a diagram of N&W 1700, which I guess was a Y-2, wasn't it?
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Postby curmudgeon » Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:39 pm

Hi again timz -

Yes, 1700 was, IIRC, the 1st Y-2.

As a curmudgeon, I appreciate your attention to detail :wink: , but the significant thing for me was simply to visually distinguish the 2 series, and Stuart's comment , while mebbe not technically correct, serves admirably.

regards,

Terry
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can avoid altogether."

curmudgeon
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Postby ek2179 » Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

The tender behind Y-2a 1714 is a USRA 12,000 gallon tender originally delivered behind one of the 50 Y-3 engines of 1919. This one has been fitted with two tender truck boosters for service on the hump at Portsmouth, O.

If you can get a copy of the long-out-of-print Classic Power volume 3A, The USRA 2-8-8-2 Series, there is a page in the back explaining the differences between all N&W's 2-8-8-2 classes.

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