Trolley in Java

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Re: Trolley in Java

Postby RussNelson » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:04 am

Whoa! So you mean that the things I thought I was seeing might be actual things I was seeing?? Damn! Mah ferroequinology skills are teh bomb! :D

Look at this very straight line: http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=42.69177,-78 ... lland%20NY
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Re: Trolley in Java

Postby thebigham » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:16 pm

^Very good, Russ.

Pat Connors, you really need to write an A&A book.

The next time I am home, I'll look for the wye at Java Center.
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Re: Trolley in Java

Postby BSOR Patarak » Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:33 pm

From the 1902 Wyoming County Atlas
Image
Java Center beginning at existing BA&A

Image
Strykersville north section from Sheldon Page

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Styrkersville page

Image
from Erie County Filing. The BA&A prospectus stated that not much of the right of way had been secured north of Marilla.

Enjoy,
Pat
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Re: Trolley in Java

Postby eajayman » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:07 pm

WOOHOOO!!!

I don't know what compelled me to check for any new maps today, but to stumble on to you guys talking about the electric line through Strykersville and Java relit the fire under my butt on this project.

I grew up in Strykersville, and asked my grandfather about the outcropping in the neighbor's back yard one day. He explained that a railroad had been graded, but never installed. Since then, I have collected maps (same as the ones posted here), and hiked, rode, and argued frequently about the existence of such a proposed line. Some of the sections of bed look like the railway was pulled out recently (even though there was never rails there in the first place).

I have had maps covering the entire line through Sheldon and Java, and I have followed much of the route there. Most of the level parts of Route 78 were rail bed at one time, and most of the homes along those sections never popped up until AFTER 1900, after the railbeds reverted back to the original owners, after the Buffalo Attica and Arcade Railroad went belly up (evidenced on title search entries along the route - I'm a Real Estate Broker ;)).

The biggest problem I reach is trying to figure out the route of the railway once it enters Erie County, particularly around Merlau Road. However, last year, I met a good friend of my boss who lives on Merlau Road. When I mentioned the railroad line (totally out of the blue, catchi9ng him by surprise), he had no idea what I was talking about. After a minute of explaining that it followed the Route 78 current roadbed until just before Merlau Road, and that THAT was where I lost it, it was like a light went on. He explained that when he did the site survey for his home site, his excavator insisted that a section across his property and going deep back into the woods behind it had a raised rail bed. The property owner didn't quite grasp it, as no railroad had ever been installed, so he had no knowledge of any railroad.

I hope to make it over there this summer to check it out. It will also let me fairly accurately plot another 1/4 mile South of his property, and the line will be completely tracked from Route 98 (where it met up with the LVRR/A&A) to *hopefully* Route 78 NORTH of Woodchuck Road.

I did see the previous post with the map plotting the route into Erie County, which seems potentially accurate North to Porterville, but the route North to Marilla would have been nearly impossible, because the train would have to climb out of the ravine where Porterville's mills were. I had an almost heated argument years back with one of the gents from the WNYRHS who insisted that the entire route was impossible due to elevations and slopes. When I brought him my map collection, he cordially apologized when he saw that it was an electric railroad, because they could climb higher slopes than any other previous designs. However, the slope North out of Porterville would have been too much.

I have had this 30+ year old project on hold for the last 10 years or so, except for the occasional search for new (old) maps online. I just stumbled on to this thread today. If anyone would like to collaborate on this, LET ME KNOW! Ultimately I would like to GPS track the entire line, maybe even get started this Summer.

I'll check back next week when I will have time to read this thread more carefully. In the mean time, I am setting this up so I receive notifications if anyone replies here. So feel free to holler if I can help, or if you have anything to add.

Jason
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Re: Trolley in Java

Postby thebigham » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:44 am

^Awesome, Jason.

Thanks for helping out and joining in on the discussion.
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Re: Trolley in Java

Postby RussNelson » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:38 am

Excellent work, Jason. Yes, I'd love to see whatever parts can be found, and go searching for more, if we can arrange a common date. Frankly, the best time to go hunting for railbeds is in the springtime after the snow is out and before the brush buds out and the leaves obscure everything. But some time in June would probably work good for me. Definitely want to write this all up for my page on unfinished railroads at http://russnelson.com/unfinished-railroads.html

If you live near enough you might want to check in the County Clerk's office. Very often the railroads will have maps registered there, and you can get scans of these maps for a small amount of money. This is a great way to find unfinished railroads, because as far as I know, they had to register the map before doing any digging.
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Re: Trolley in Java

Postby eajayman » Mon May 21, 2012 4:24 pm

I'm in South Wales. Russ, I tried emailing you, but never heard back. All good. You can email me at jaymandude@aim.com. There are a few key places Strykersville where the grading of the line is still obvious. The most obvious place is along a pond on the Northey property Route 78 in Java, just a couple hundred yards South of the Java Sheldon line, on the West side of Route 78, North of Strykersville Hardware's current location. There are a couple other secluded "burms" that I remember as a kid.

I am planning to go meet with a resident on Merlau Road who says that there is grading on his property too. I don't know when I will do it though.

If you plan to be in this area, hit me up. I'll make you copies of what I have (the most detailed of which is partially shown in this thread). I haven't spoken with R. Barber (one of the local historians) in years. His grandfather walked the entire line through Java with him as a child, and he had offered to walk it with me a looooong time ago. I don't know if he's still around, but if he is, he'd be the best direct source for info for the section through Java. The route through Sheldon is blatant for the most part. North and West of there has pretty much been anyone's guess. However I noticed just now that the Erie County map is, in fact, an old map based on the roadways. Several of those roads are gone now, and new ones don't appear on the map. I'm sorry I doubted it earlier!

Talk with you sometime soon.
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Re: Trolley in Java

Postby RussNelson » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:40 am

eajayman wrote:I'll make you copies of what I have (the most detailed of which is partially shown in this thread).

Awesome! Yeah, I gotta start going out west in the spring, because there's just SO MUCH that I need to see when the leaves are off the trees. Planning on it for next spring. Went south this spring -- to the Newburgh / Middletown area.

Sorry about the email -- there was a change in the railroad.net email details which caused all their email to me to get dropped into my spambin. I've fetched it out and will contact you in late winter of next year.
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Re: Trolley in Java

Postby RussNelson » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:38 pm

I've added the route as best I can determine it. Feel free to criticize, correct, or even scoff.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/268155329
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Re: Trolley in Java

Postby thebigham » Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:15 pm

I walked the A&A at Java Center today. The rail through there is marked 1932.

I found the grade for the Buffalo extension. Looks like just one leg of the wye was graded.

It's closer to the "cheese factory" on this map:

http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/ ... /New+York/

I took some pics, but the area is so overgrown with pricker bushes!
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Re: Trolley in Java

Postby thebigham » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:47 pm

Two pics of where the wye would have connected to the A&A at Java Center:

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=228102

Proposed in the early 1900s. Partil grading was done, but the line was never built

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=228103

I'm standing right on the grade here.
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Re: Trolley in Java

Postby RussNelson » Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:14 pm

I went there April 15th. Went to Java Center to look for the unfinished Northern Extension. Found both ends of the wye off the A&A. You would NEVER be able to find it when the brush is leaved out. Next to Java Village and Strykersville to try to find more bits of this line. I found a bit of railbed north of the highway south of where it intersects with Pit Road. Being an unfinished railroad, it's hard to see the parts that were never graded. As you get further from North Java, there are some parts of the route where you look at the map, look at the hillside, and just shake your head, wondering how the heck they were going to get down off that hill.
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Re: Trolley in Java

Postby eajayman » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:14 pm

Found a wealth of newspaper articles detailing this line, including corporation documents for the "Buffalo Valley Railroad" (NOT the B,A&A as detailed in the Abstracts of Title for several properties along that line!).

I uploaded one of the clippings here (see below. or above. not exactly sure where it will end up when I submit this).

I'd be willing to burn all of the articles to a cd or dvd (or transfer files through Skype or any other messenger service if desired) for anyone who would like copies. Most of my downloads are full page scans of old newspapers.

I want to put together a presentation for the local historians from Java, Strykersville, Sheldon, Wales, and Marilla. I'd be happy to credit anyone who contributes.

Call, email, text, or send smoke signals if you are interested or have any documentation to contribute! Thank you in advance.

Jason Trank
jaymandude@aim.com
seven1six-3eight0-seven4four4
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Buffalo_Courier_Sat__Dec_28__1901_CLIPPING.jpg
Article in the December 28th 1901 edition of the Buffalo Courier
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