CSX signal replacement across New York State

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CSX signal replacement across New York State

Postby TOMT7X » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:56 am

I have been touring around the line last November on the way home from visiting a good friend in Rochester, as I have taken the side road to follow along the CSX's Water Level Route, as there is so many spots that CSXT has been changing signals, digging new trenches, new signal bungalow foundations and new signal poles sticking out from the ground. So far as to date, I have counted 18 new signals are getting ready for activation, some are bagged and on ground, some has cables sticking out from the pipe for new signals and bungalows, etc.

The NYC era signals are to fall rapidly when warm weather comes up in 2012. CSXT maintainers from other states had nearly complete the old C&O signals around the West Va area, including the old B&O ones along on its main line towards from Greenwich JCT to New Castle. plus most in Maryland area, almost like 70% complete, then the signal gang is to creep up towards NY State.

I have bagged some sections between MP 179 (west of Amsterdam station) has new foundations and a new bungalow with pipes coming up from the ground about 600 feet west from MP 179 automatics, its placed by a cone) MP181, same thing. CP184 has new westbound signals all up and bagged.. as they are digging for a new "highway" cantilever foundation at CP 184 facing eastbound to have all 3 signals, one for the controlled siding. Same thing for CP188. MP 193 has new signal posts on them , but no signal heads up. CP196, there was a backhoe digging up a trench line for a new bungalow.. and so on.. Then as I went by Syracuse/Weedsport area, CP313, its bagged and ready for service. CP323, same thing.. possibly in service by now.. I have seen numerous CSXT signal maintainers every 10 miles doing some signal work and such. CP 184 Signal station, is a place where you can see theres a crane and people assembling up new signals from this job site and load it on CSXT signal boom crane trucks, and set it up on destined places. (Remember this was in November as my last visit) so I am curious right now on where are those guys working.. since I am to return and "invade" the line wheres theres old NYC signals still standing in the fall..

NY residents and railfans, if you happen to see some signals has been changed over or replaced, leave a note on this forum so I can get an idea on which to skip for pictorials, as it can help me save time. (and fuel too) I really appreciate this..

Thanks
Dave
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Re: Any new information on CSX's NYS Signal replacement?

Postby roadster » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:55 pm

Well, with exception to the stuff damaged by the flooding at Amsterdam. All of the NYC signals are still in place and operating. The new signals are mostly in place up to CP 184, and work continues(auto 182 is still just a foundation). I have seen the placement of foundations and underground tuding/conduit to Palantines Bridge and CP 198. Don't expect them to activate the new signals untill they have an entire section ready to switch over, because this also includes different signal rules taking effect.
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Re: Any new information on CSX's NYS Signal replacement?

Postby TOMT7X » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:15 pm

Thank you for your info Roadster..

Looks like it slowed down due to winter ground freeze. If you have the time on your road trip, just simply "spot" on the ground where you can see some "cones" and lots of pink spray painting on the ground where the old signal bridges are located, including some "red fiber optic" flags are on the way to warn diggers that theres fiber optics in the ground. so thats another clue where they are working on new signal coding from the old bungalow to interconnect with a new one. I have got one e mail just recently from someone whom lives in Lyons area stated that there was work on a new bungalow with some cabling coming out from a steel tubing.

More information about this signal replacement is more than welcome. Thanks!

Dave
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Re: Any new information on CSX's NYS Signal replacement?

Postby scottychaos » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:44 pm

For years I have been thinking about going out and photographing all the old signal bridges around Rochester..
I even considered trying to photograph them all between Buffalo and Syracuse! just because..
(a few cant be easily seen from public roads..will have to skip a few probably..but still..)
Now I better quit procrastinating and get out and do it!
I pass the one at Westside Drive in Chili several times a day..I live right down the road from it..

thanks for the heads-up! im going to get working on this now..

anyone know when these signal bridges were first installed?

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Re: Any new information on CSX's NYS Signal replacement?

Postby roadster » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:54 pm

yes, there are atleast 2 gangs of signal construction crews working across the state. Maybe 3, as they upgraded the Belt line around Buffalo this fall. From CP 296 West there are new signals in place at several CP's and recently they've progressed to Lyons. But they seem to be doing the CP's 1st, some of the automatics in between are only foundations and conduit. They seem to jump around between sites and and construct in steps. When a certain step is complete, they go to another location and work, then return to the previous site a few days later and do another step or process. Down towards Fonda by CP 184 is where I see them the most in past few weeks. Oh, I forgot, there's another crew working on the Selkirk branch at CP RJ which still has NYC mast and lights active, but new mast and lights are in place but turned and OoS still. The signals from Auto 37, to CP169 all the way to CP 175 have yet to be done.
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Re: Any new information on CSX's NYS Signal replacement?

Postby roadster » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:02 pm

Most of them were originally installed with semiphores. I've seen a number of old pics during the switch over period where semiphores were still active and lights were placed yet turned or bagged next to them on the bridges. You should be able to get pics of most, but in someplaces you'll have the new mast standing right in front of the tower legs. Kinda obscuring the and messing up the shot. So get out there and get clicking. As TOMT7X said, come spring and warmer weather, the new mast will be sprouting like wild flowers.
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Re: Any new information on CSX's NYS Signal replacement?

Postby TOMT7X » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:04 pm

Scott,

Theres millions of ways to get photos of trains with signal bridges. Try to go into this link:

http://www.rochester-railfan.net/images ... 373338.jpg

Look at the Map.. and if you see any nearest street and you find a green "dash" and a green number.. those are signal bridges (or wayside signals or signal posts) If you see one near the crossing, theres your prize. Every signal bridge (aka "automatics") are placed every 2 miles. The "home" signals (usually called "Control points" CP) like CP359, CP349, and such in green lettering as where the home signals and crossovers are. Those are also can be found near grade crossings. Sometimes trains will stop on control points to let other "expedited" trains to go by (esp. intermodals or Amtrak over slow freights)

Go back to the same railfan page link above, that I gave you, theres a map that goes from Erie, PA towards Selkirk. so this map is fairly accurate.. HBD/DED's are being changed, some are in accurate spots, but most draggers are gone.

Good luck! Let me know what you seen.

Thanks
Dave
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Re: Any new information on CSX's NYS Signal replacement?

Postby roadster » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:24 pm

Oh, Scotty knows his way around the RR. He's just sayin there's a few signals which aren't accessible without trespassing on CSX property. I have that actual map book from your link. Really good, but soon to be out dated.
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Re: Any new information on CSX's NYS Signal replacement?

Postby scottychaos » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:56 pm

TOMT7X wrote:Scott,

Theres millions of ways to get photos of trains with signal bridges. Try to go into this link:

http://www.rochester-railfan.net/images ... 373338.jpg

Look at the Map.. and if you see any nearest street and you find a green "dash" and a green number.. those are signal bridges (or wayside signals or signal posts) If you see one near the crossing, theres your prize.


thanks! thats a great map..

roadster wrote:Oh, Scotty knows his way around the RR. He's just sayin there's a few signals which aren't accessible without trespassing on CSX property.


yes, thats exactly what I meant! Image

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Re: Any new information on CSX's NYS Signal replacement?

Postby FarmallBob » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:34 pm

A somewhat related question for you CSX Chicago Line signal experts: Why are the automatic signals at 272 (2 miles west of Canastota) overlapped by about 1,000 ft? Ie. the eastbound and westbound signals are separated by about 1,000 feet and face each other.

Was this location previously a controlled point? (CP 272?) Concrete foundation ruins near the present signal masts suggest a signal bridge may have once occupied this spot.

Below is a view looking west of automatic 272 The eastbound automatics are the mast mounted, 2 head signals (the approach signals for CP 270). The bridge beyond supports the single head westbound signals.

Thanks! ...FB

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Re: Any new information on CSX's NYS Signal replacement?

Postby TOMT7X » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:30 pm

I believe, there is the same signal configuration in MP (QC) 186 (downtown Fonda) that has the dual signal bridge 1,000 feet apart with heads exactly the same thing. I am also curious on that one, but that may be the possiblity that the crossovers were removed. I have checked the PC Track Chart way back in 1967 it shows the same configuration. Why? Beats me..

By the way, good question and photo you brought up.. Thank you!

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Re: Any new information on CSX's NYS Signal replacement?

Postby O-6-O » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:27 pm

I wonder if the reverse curves have anything to do with it? Seems like crews would have a little more time to react if they came around the bend and were "surprised"
by the aspect. From either direction you don't get a long view of either signal. Or maybe I'm all wet....good question though.
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Re: Any new information on CSX's NYS Signal replacement?

Postby charlie6017 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:38 pm

O-6-O wrote:I wonder if the reverse curves have anything to do with it? Seems like crews would have a little more time to react if they came around the bend and were "surprised"
by the aspect. From either direction you don't get a long view of either signal. Or maybe I'm all wet....good question though.


I was wondering the same thing when I saw that earlier, but your theory makes good sense........

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Re: Any new information on CSX's NYS Signal replacement?

Postby roadster » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:39 pm

I believe that it's because of the reverse curve. The present set up gives us a longer better look at the signals ( both directions) particularly going East Bound, ya don't wanna miss an approach signal here and charge into a Stop Signal. Even West bound, Boliver rd and Auto 276 are the usual hold out spots for trains going into Dewitt. The same for the 181 automatic East of Fonda on those curves. Interesting point for that one is the new foundation is in place between the 2 signals and the new modern cantilever signal tower is assembled, but laying off to the side. It appears this will become a single installation, signaled for both directions. I have also noticed that the new signal locations are further apart than the old ones giving more distance between signals. Example, Near Weedsport, NY, you have CP 308, auto 310, auto 312, then CP 313. The new signal placement is just East of the fairgrounds West of MP 311. I expect them to eliminate 310 and 312 here. Also, CP 300 is going to be eliminated. So you'll have auto 299, 301, 303, and CP 306. The same is happening down East at Auto 179, and the new signal installation is being built about 1000 ft west. Part of the PTC system is further spacing between trains.
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Re: Any new information on CSX's NYS Signal replacement?

Postby lvrr325 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:41 am

Interlocking here would preceed the 1961 track reduction and CTC install; my 1974 PC timetable, which still has the CPs numbered 1-2-3-4 etc on each division, doesn't show one here nor has a number gap.
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